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Advice requested re: string wrap length issue

J

jmjbassplayer

Justin Meldal-Johnsen
Gold Supporting Member
Mar 25, 2005
4,014
3,599
#1
Hello,

I've got a beloved - but also a very "well-loved" - and idiosyncratic '75 P bass. I've had it for like 30 years. But I now wonder if the bridge placement might be off. It's all original, but who knows - maybe this bass was built at 4PM on a Friday and it's a bit wonky. Anyway, after all these years of owning it, I think I've only just now realized that the bridge/saddle placement may be unfriendly to some strings (though it's correct with the saddles this far back for good intonation).

What I've just come to realize (took me a while) is that because those saddles are slammed so far back, some strings have too long of a wrap section (or whatever it's called) for this bass to get the right tone.

I needed to change strings, and thought I'd try some LaBella rounds I just acquired. Immediately, I noticed on the E that the action was very high and it sounded dead. As you can see from the first pic, that thicker wrap section is what's crossing the saddle, not the main section of the string.

So I put on my usual D'Addario, and noticed the same thing, but to a much less degree - see second pic. It sounded OK, but perhaps lacking in some fundamental. I wonder if I've been living with this forever, and just never really noticed.

I guess what I'm asking is: in lieu of actually pulling my bridge and having it re-oriented (really don't wanna do that), are there strings that are recommended that mitigate this issue? I like nickels with a sort of average brightness.

Thanks much in advance for your tips and advice.

JMJ
 

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#2
That E string is certainly a bit of a problem, with the spring completely compressed and the wire wrap making a hard break angle over the saddle. First thing I would do is some measurements. If it's a Fender P-bass, it should have a 34" string length between the nut and the median saddle positions: 17" from nut to 12th fret, and 17" from the 12th fret to the saddle. If it were all about Pythagorean geometry, then the saddles would all be lined up at the 34" position, but there's more at play here to get the functional intonation right. At a guess, your bridge/tailpiece is about 1/4" too close to the neck, but measure first, drill later... (For what it's worth, the bridge on my 1968 P-bass is decidely crooked, although roughly the right distance from the nut. Quality control wasn't always what it could be.)
 
#4
I'm not crazy about the A, either. You really don't want the overwrap crossing the saddle as it screws w/ witness points, intonation, etc. The quick cheap-fix is to add spacers just ahead of the ball end before installing. Best source is your local hardware parts bins.

One caveat: if we jack the string(s) towards the ball end anchor 7-8 mm, make sure we're not dragging the taper across the nut slot. I can't recommend a string although I've been using Dunlop SuperBright nicks for the past 15 yrs.

Riis
 
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#5
jmjbassplayer said:
Hello,

I've got a beloved - but also a very "well-loved" - and idiosyncratic '75 P bass. I've had it for like 30 years. But I now wonder if the bridge placement might be off. It's all original, but who knows - maybe this bass was built at 4PM on a Friday and it's a bit wonky. Anyway, after all these years of owning it, I think I've only just now realized that the bridge/saddle placement may be unfriendly to some strings (though it's correct with the saddles this far back for good intonation).

What I've just come to realize (took me a while) is that because those saddles are slammed so far back, some strings have too long of a wrap section (or whatever it's called) for this bass to get the right tone.

I needed to change strings, and thought I'd try some LaBella rounds I just acquired. Immediately, I noticed on the E that the action was very high and it sounded dead. As you can see from the first pic, that thicker wrap section is what's crossing the saddle, not the main section of the string.

So I put on my usual D'Addario, and noticed the same thing, but to a much less degree - see second pic. It sounded OK, but perhaps lacking in some fundamental. I wonder if I've been living with this forever, and just never really noticed.

I guess what I'm asking is: in lieu of actually pulling my bridge and having it re-oriented (really don't wanna do that), are there strings that are recommended that mitigate this issue? I like nickels with a sort of average brightness.

Thanks much in advance for your tips and advice.

JMJ
Click to expand...
One simple solution would be to use a spacer on the E string so the ball end sits farther down.

Something like this...

Fender 9050L on J.jpg
 
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#6
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#8
jmjbassplayer said:
Great advice regarding the spacers. Anyone have a source for these? My local hardware spot sucks and won't have anything like this.
Click to expand...

Take a pocket rule and measure how much "displacement" is required...we work with that. A straight-on shot of the headstock / nut / E string machine head would help.

In a pinch, you can cannibalize the the ball-ends from old, spent strings and "bead string" them for the desired offset.

Add: these are representative: https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Aluminum-3-1x5-5x40mm-Standoff-Unthreaded/dp/B0FNH9QDVX?th=1 I'm guessing you need something with a 1/8" I.D., length to be determined. I have to stop by the hardware store tomorrow and can pick up a few.

Riis
 
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#11
I would verify the G string and use it as a reference.

On all of my p basses, it’s 34" (or very close to it) from the inside of the nut to the center of the saddle. Just like if the smallest string is always the easiest and most accurate to be set to proper intonation.

Then I would verify the E string and "hope" that same measurement is not much more than 34 3/8" after almost proper intonation.

Ideally, when the G string is set and the scale is close to 34", the screw of the saddle should leave a little portion of it of around 3/8" to 1/4" long on the opposite side of the spring. If more than that, MAYBE the bridge is too close to the pickup and needs to be relocated.

BUT !!!!

I often saw some strings that were difficult to set to proper intonation or that were too easy to stretch. I had this situation and when I replaced these strings with some high quality ones, the G string was exactly at 34" and the E string was at 34 1/8" so before moving the bridge, you may want to try another set of strings from another manufacturer.
 
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#13
I was about to suggest tapered or exposed core strings, specifically the SIT Power Wound. I have a set on a bass and just looked at it and there is a “fatter” wrapped section near the ball end that would probably overlap the E saddle on that bridge, though it would be to a lesser degree than the ones in the photo. The risk is that exposed/tapered strings can generate a chorus-like warble.

As an experiment you could order a single at 100 or 105.
sitstrings.com

Tapered / Recessed Wound Nickel Bass Singles - S.I.T. Strings

S.I.T. Strings Power Wound Nickel Tapered / Recessed Wound Nickel Bass Singles are designed to deliver a warm, punchy tone with deep lows and clear highs. Featuring a high-tension hex core and nickel-plated steel wrap, these strings offer exceptional durability, balanced response, and smooth...
sitstrings.com sitstrings.com

This might not be the greatest solution, but I’m throwing it out there.
 
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#16
I'd move the bridge back - problems are best resolved at the source. Unless you have very high action (which would necessitate moving the saddles back), the root of you problem is that the bridge is not in the right place. You can move the bridge back without any visible evidence that it was in the wrong place - the bridge will cover the previous holes just fine. Moving a bridge is a very straightforward, simple task.

On Fenders. moving the bridge back a smidge also helps avoid wrapping the fat part of the E string around the tuner.
 
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#17
This is super common on Gibson 3-point bridges too. I've used old bass string ball-ends slipped over the string as spacers under similar circumstances (sometimes helps that I never throw old strings away for some reason!). A ball end should fit just fine on an E string AND fit just fine into the rear string ferrules of string-through-body instruments too (although not applicable here). Yours looks far enough off on the E string that you may need two ball ends, though no doubt you could find a single piece of random hardware at a Home Depot or similar that would do the job.
 
#19
jmjbassplayer said:
Hello,

I've got a beloved - but also a very "well-loved" - and idiosyncratic '75 P bass. I've had it for like 30 years. But I now wonder if the bridge placement might be off. It's all original, but who knows - maybe this bass was built at 4PM on a Friday and it's a bit wonky. Anyway, after all these years of owning it, I think I've only just now realized that the bridge/saddle placement may be unfriendly to some strings (though it's correct with the saddles this far back for good intonation).

What I've just come to realize (took me a while) is that because those saddles are slammed so far back, some strings have too long of a wrap section (or whatever it's called) for this bass to get the right tone.

I needed to change strings, and thought I'd try some LaBella rounds I just acquired. Immediately, I noticed on the E that the action was very high and it sounded dead. As you can see from the first pic, that thicker wrap section is what's crossing the saddle, not the main section of the string.

So I put on my usual D'Addario, and noticed the same thing, but to a much less degree - see second pic. It sounded OK, but perhaps lacking in some fundamental. I wonder if I've been living with this forever, and just never really noticed.

I guess what I'm asking is: in lieu of actually pulling my bridge and having it re-oriented (really don't wanna do that), are there strings that are recommended that mitigate this issue? I like nickels with a sort of average brightness.

Thanks much in advance for your tips and advice.

JMJ
Click to expand...

Gervais Cote said:
Ideally, when the G string is set and the scale is close to 34", the screw of the saddle should leave a little portion of it of around 3/8" to 1/4" long on the opposite side of the spring. If more than that, MAYBE the bridge is too close to the pickup and needs to be relocated.
Click to expand...
There is no reason to have any excess screw coming out the front side of the G string saddle - on a 34 inch scale instrument, the saddle for the G string is fine with the screw all the way out (you can even use a longer screw, so long as the saddle stays on the baseplate). This bass has it's bridge set a bit further back than normal, and the G string screw is longer tha what was supplied - it works great. With that bridge position, I can use strings designed to work on 35" scales (a lot of sets are wound that way today), and not wind the fat part of the B string around the tuner.

Holey Front.jpg
 
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#20
That sucks. I'd likely look at other proper built precisions and move the bridge back as indicated. Fix what the fender factory messed up.

Other than that, you could probably swap in a fender hi-mass or badass and accomplish something similar, as they move the anchor point back.

Good luck either way. Your bass has that "Keanu" signature bass look. 😂
 

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