Advice requested re: string wrap length issue

[Turnaround]

If you set the witness point at the bridge on that E string, it will intonate it will intonate further forward - maybe enough to get past the fat wraps. While you're at it set the wintess points onall the strings at both ends and re-intonate.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I would verify the G string and use it as a reference.

On all of my p basses, it’s 34" (or very close to it) from the inside of the nut to the center of the saddle. Just like if the smallest string is always the easiest and most accurate to be set to proper intonation.

Then I would verify the E string and "hope" that same measurement is not much more than 34 3/8" after almost proper intonation.

Ideally, when the G string is set and the scale is close to 34", the screw of the saddle should leave a little portion of it of around 3/8" to 1/4" long on the opposite side of the spring. If more than that, MAYBE the bridge is too close to the pickup and needs to be relocated.

BUT !!!!

I often saw some strings that were difficult to set to proper intonation or that were too easy to stretch. I had this situation and when I replaced these strings with some high quality ones, the G string was exactly at 34" and the E string was at 34 1/8" so before moving the bridge, you may want to try another set of strings from another manufacturer.

This is what Fender has as a ‘roughing it’ recommendation. A rough intonation by using the G saddle as the initial reference point with it’s saddle mid point being the scale length. And then position the mid point of the D saddle back the distance of it’s gauge. And then the A saddle back from the D saddle by it’s gauge and so on. So in the end, the E saddle mid point , were the gauge .100 and the D and A strings .065 and .080 respectively, would appear .245” or a bit over 6mm rear of the G saddle mid point

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And this roughie thing isn’t that far off on a bass I have with non fender saddles. The rear edge of the D saddle is a little less rearward than the 065 gauge. The A saddle rear edge is about bang on further back than D by it’s gauge. As is the E from the A. And this bass is in tune with itself all over the board, even at the highest frets. Of course sometimes this uniformity doesn’t occur and a saddle might actually fwd of where you think it would be or much further back then expected. I’ve had saddles further fwd of E for example. Or even the smallest diameter string saddle further back than all the others, rather than fwd.

 

[Topkat13]

I didn’t read all the posts. But have you checked the intonation?

 

[antfarm]

There is a thread with a photo about how Donald “Duck” Dunn solved the same problem.

The method is easily reversible so you can verify if it really is an audible or just a cosmetic problem.

Thread 'A little known thing about Duck Dunn's bridge'

Apr 21, 2020

I hope this doesn't break a rule by muddying up the board with another Duck post, but I didn't want this one to get buried in the thread with the full image/video of the bass.

Duck used a nut and a ball end as spacers for his A and E strings to keep the "witness point" (thank you for educating us, @SteveCS) to include only the pure part of the string, not the mangled mess by the ball end. The idea being the sound would be better. I don't know how much a difference it makes, but I did add some hex nuts onto a few of my basses. It seems only the old school stock Fender...

• bopeuph
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Basses [BG]

• 

 

[Zooberwerx]

If you set the witness point at the bridge on that E string, it will intonate it will intonate further forward - maybe enough to get past the fat wraps. While you're at it set the wintess points onall the strings at both ends and re-intonate.

Do-able but I have a heckuva time coaxing the necessary break into place when overwrap is present. Agreed that we may find we're waaaay flat and need to goose the saddle forward.

As suggested, tapered strings usually intonate well-forward of their full-wrap counterparts. While new string types are an option, I'm laboring under the impression we'd like to stick with existing string sets (LaBella / D'Addario).

Riis

 

[mikecd1]

Great advice regarding the spacers. Anyone have a source for these? My local hardware spot sucks and won't have anything like this.

Just cut the ball off of old strings and place on the end before the bridge for spacing.

 

[Major Seven]

There is no reason to have any excess screw coming out the front side of the G string saddle - on a 34 inch scale instrument, the saddle for the G string is fine with the screw all the way out (you can even use a longer screw, so long as the saddle stays on the baseplate). This bass has it's bridge set a bit further back than normal, and the G string screw is longer tha what was supplied - it works great. With that bridge position, I can use strings designed to work on 35" scales (a lot of sets are wound that way today), and not wind the fat part of the B string around the tuner.

View attachment 7374117

This bass has been playing like this since 1975?

 

[micguy]

This bass has been playing like this since 1975?

OK, but if you want it to play well, it doesn’t matter how long it’s been poorly set up.

 

[SkylineFiver]

Could a bass string ferrule be used as a spacer? They are available on Amazon and Sweetwater

 

[Luckydog]

Hello,

I've got a beloved - but also a very "well-loved" - and idiosyncratic '75 P bass. I've had it for like 30 years. But I now wonder if the bridge placement might be off. It's all original, but who knows - maybe this bass was built at 4PM on a Friday and it's a bit wonky. Anyway, after all these years of owning it, I think I've only just now realized that the bridge/saddle placement may be unfriendly to some strings (though it's correct with the saddles this far back for good intonation).

What I've just come to realize (took me a while) is that because those saddles are slammed so far back, some strings have too long of a wrap section (or whatever it's called) for this bass to get the right tone.

I needed to change strings, and thought I'd try some LaBella rounds I just acquired. Immediately, I noticed on the E that the action was very high and it sounded dead. As you can see from the first pic, that thicker wrap section is what's crossing the saddle, not the main section of the string.

So I put on my usual D'Addario, and noticed the same thing, but to a much less degree - see second pic. It sounded OK, but perhaps lacking in some fundamental. I wonder if I've been living with this forever, and just never really noticed.

I guess what I'm asking is: in lieu of actually pulling my bridge and having it re-oriented (really don't wanna do that), are there strings that are recommended that mitigate this issue? I like nickels with a sort of average brightness.

Thanks much in advance for your tips and advice.

JMJ

Justin, check your packaging for the Labellas. For awhile they shipped them with little removable fake dice thingies on the strings. Might be the right size to space the ball end further back.

 

[Jens Telemark]

Very widely available 18-8 #3 washers work as spacers for up to .105 gauge strings (often they’ll do a .109). They also let you use small ball bass VI guitar strings on a bass bridge which is handy for small tuner short scale instruments like a Danelectro 1444 if you want more different string options.

 

[jmjbassplayer]

Justin, check your packaging for the Labellas. For awhile they shipped them with little removable fake dice thingies on the strings. Might be the right size to space the ball end further back.

Yeah I remember those. I don't see them now. I bought some M4 nuts and have some ball-ends, gonna experiment. Thanks to all!

 

[Lemarcon]

Yeah I remember those. I don't see them now. I bought some M4 nuts and have some ball-ends, gonna experiment. Thanks to all!

I also have a 1975 P Bass. It must’ve been also finished on a Friday after 4:00. I’ve been dealing with this issue for decades.

Will try it as well!! Thanks