Advise on scales and improvising.

[Spin Doctor]

Yes.
Now, we are talking.
As I've mentioned before, conversion is based on the
"ever-expanding melodic/harmonic/rhythmic/compositional/etc. devices (plus, various chromatic embellishments between scale steps), based on one's particular technical (like ghosted notes, dampened open strings, percussive right hand articulations, glissandos, etc. - other technical devices) capabilities, plus the never ending MUSICAL vocabulary - melodic vocabulary, harmonic vocabulary, compositional vocabulary, etc..."

For beginners about Coltrane's improvisation:

Invalid Link Removed

It's interesting... I've never seen the information in this link before in my life. But the author and I used the exact same phrase. "It's not random". This is a key element improvisors need to get. I'm very far from being at a satisfying level for my own playing, but I know where I need to go and how to get there. Once you make peace with that concept, it's just a matter of taking the individual steps of your 10,000 mile journey.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

It's interesting... I've never seen the information in this link before in my life. But the author and I used the exact same phrase. "It's not random". This is a key element improvisors need to get. I'm very far from being at a satisfying level for my own playing, but I know where I need to go and how to get there. Once you make peace with that concept, it's just a matter of taking the individual steps of your 10,000 mile journey.

About my use of the word, "mechanical".
It's not a bad term because...
Learning how to play the C major scale is a "mechanical jobthumbsup".
Learning how to arpeggiate this/that chord is a "mechanical job)."
We must always do a lot of "mechanical training".

Any pattern-based improvisation methods (including famous Jerry Bergonzi's permutations) will be "mechanical" at the basic level.

P.S. Please note, that I tend to include quotation marks with that word, mechanical, for the reasons explained earlier in my comment.

 

[Spin Doctor]

About my use of the word, "mechanical".
It's not a bad term because...
Learning how to play the C major scale is a "mechanical jobthumbsup".
Learning how to arpeggiate this/that chord is a "mechanical job)."
We must always do a lot of "mechanical training".

Any pattern-based improvisation methods (including famous Jerry Bergonzi's permutations) will be "mechanical" at the basic level.

P.S. Please note, that I tend to include quotation marks with that word, mechanical, for the reasons explained earlier in my comment.

Yeah, there's a certain amount of mechanical repetition and application you have to put in for this stuff to soak into your brain and be useful.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Yeah, there's a certain amount of mechanical repetition and application you have to put in for this stuff to soak into your brain and be useful.

I doubt that we can call the following exercise from Bergonzi's book "a beautiful musical phrasing".

There is a difference between Major and Minor chord permutations.

Also, you can change the permutations.

 

[mambo4]

Coltrane's later solo stuff often strikes me like George Russel's Lydian Chromatic schtick:
Thoughtful structures and patterns that don't appeal to my ear.
Such challenging explorations work better contrasted against some serious ear candy IMHO

something like Invalid Link Removed comes to mind

 

[Whousedtoplay]

A lot of Coltrane's fans here.

A few John Coltrane's transcriptions.

Invalid Link Removed

https://jazztranscriptions.files.wo...n-the-trane-from-afro-blue-impressions-c1.pdf


BlueTrain- Coltrane Solo Transc.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

If you analyze a Jimmy Haslip solo, you'll find that it's 99% diatonic to the key.

Just faster than me.

Guitarist Dean Brown, bassist Jimmy Haslip, drummer Frank Briggs and Philippe Saisse on keyboards.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Just faster than me.

Guitarist Dean Brown, bassist Jimmy Haslip, drummer Frank Briggs and Philippe Saisse on keyboards.

My band actually plays this version of footprints. The same vibe, anyway, lol...

 

[Spin Doctor]

I doubt that we can call the following exercise from Bergonzi's book "a beautiful musical phrasing".

View attachment 3457318

There is a difference between Major and Minor chord permutations.
View attachment 3457322

Also, you can change the permutations.

View attachment 3457325

You might think it's not beautiful, but you don't even know what it sounds like within its context. It has no meaning without it.

One big problem I see a lot here on TalkBass (and it's a serious problem) is lack of perspective. I see many comments made with no allowance for the integration and synergy of concepts. Everything is either one thing or the other thing. I guess when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Coltrane's later solo stuff often strikes me like George Russel's Lydian Chromatic schtick:
Thoughtful structures and patterns that don't appeal to my ear.
Such challenging explorations work better contrasted against some serious ear candy IMHO

something like Invalid Link Removed comes to mind

Coltrane isn't for everybody, but I get what you're saying. He wasn't some kind of instant revelation for me. It took a long time to even start to get it.

 

[Groove Master]

Just faster than me.

Guitarist Dean Brown, bassist Jimmy Haslip, drummer Frank Briggs and Philippe Saisse on keyboards.

Unfortunately this is not a typical diatonic solo example from Jimmy. It is based on pentatonic and blues scale here..

 

[Spin Doctor]

Unfortunately this is not a typical diatonic solo example from Jimmy. It is based on pentatonic and blues scale here..

Yeah, he's kinda phoning this solo in. Prolly because it's just a jam and he's not thinkimg about it that much. Lots and lots of pentatonic stuff happening. But he plays a lot of pentatonics as a rule.

 

[Groove Master]

Yeah, he's kinda phoning this solo in. Prolly because it's just a jam and he's not thinkimg about it that much. Lots and lots of pentatonic stuff happening. But he plays a lot of pentatonics as a rule.

I really liked the idea of mentioning Haslip's improv work in a diatonic context ;-)

Listen to his solo on the Yellowjacket's tune One family:

 

[Spin Doctor]

I really liked the idea of mentioning Haslip's improv work in a diatonic context ;-)

Listen to his solo on the Yellowjacket's tune One family:

I've learned that one. It's beautiful...

Here's a couple more in that diatonic context. To me, Haslip is the proof that proves the Anti-Mode people wrong. You can play any of his solos using modal shapes to navigate the fretboard and all makes complete sense. It does to me anyway. But he uses pieces of all the diatonic structures... Modes, arpeggios, pentatonics, note groupings, you name it. But it's usually all within a certain key center. In my mind, if you want to learn to apply modes in modern fusion jazz, you have to study Haslip. I was thinking of doing a video of how it all fits together. Maybe someday...