Double Bass AER Compact 60 for upright bass?

[Les Fret]

AER amps are very expensive, I've only heard the Amp One with Double Bass and it's not an amplifier I'd choose for Double Bass. Just my opinion of course.

I agree. They are very expensive. They are better for guitar and even electric bass I think. Or for upright when having low volume at home for practicing. For that they sound really good. But then again you don’t need an amp when practicing upright at home. I use one for electric bass at the music school where I teach.

 

[jj.833]

I noticed that the speaker couldn’t really handle strong accented attacks on the strings

Why are strong accents causing a problem?

Below, on the pink-blue pic, there's a frequency response of two different double basses recorded by microphone (FFT, playing a whole blues 12bar in E). You can see that the first peak is about 60 Hz. Below, the subsonic rumble is more or less unimportant for your ear. For better understanding, see the 'phon' curve - this shows how our ear percieves 'the same volume'. To the ear, the 30Hz is about as loud as 4 kHz.

The yellow-green pic below is how the same basses, playing the same notes, behave frequency-wise when lined out through my amp. This is not the raw signal, it's processed by preamp, which (among other things) is limiting the lows by not very severe high pass filter.

These lines show 'distribution of power' aiming from the amp to the speaker. The biggest difference is on the left side: you can see that about 50% of 'power' is taken by the frequencies below 100 Hz. If you compare the two pictures, you can see that the amp creates much more power below 60 Hz than the acoustic bass does.

The last picture is the same two basses, through the same amp, but microphoned from the speaker.

You can see that below 60 Hz, the signal drops rapidly, because my 6" speakers are not able to reproduce such a low sounds. But, if you compare with the first 'acoustic' pic, you can see that the overall shape of frequency response is very similar.

Conclusion:
a/ big amount of 'power' is 'wasted' on subsonic rumble, which will not be reproduced anyway.
b/ if you play more loudly, the loudnes would show in the right side of the pictures. Louder playing has impact on higher harmonics of the string, but these higher harmonics need much less power to be reproduced.

So:
If the AER sounds nice, it would probably sound as nice with a HPF, but would 'spare more power' for the frequencies that are important for the overall amplified sound. Try it.

 

[Les Fret]

Why are strong accents causing a problem?

I don't know the scientific approach but the speaker just couldn't handle it. That's all I need to know.

 

[jj.833]

Come on, give it a try! Since I learned this 'scientific approach', I haven't had to buy any new amp or cab. So I saved very many money, and I'm gasing for AER for years now. So I'm hoping someone will say this amp is the best in the world ;-)

 

[Mister Cbass]

Why are strong accents causing a problem?

Below, on the pink-blue pic, there's a frequency response of two different double basses recorded by microphone (FFT, playing a whole blues 12bar in E). You can see that the first peak is about 60 Hz. Below, the subsonic rumble is more or less unimportant for your ear. For better understanding, see the 'phon' curve - this shows how our ear percieves 'the same volume'. To the ear, the 30Hz is about as loud as 4 kHz.
View attachment 3991032
The yellow-green pic below is how the same basses, playing the same notes, behave frequency-wise when lined out through my amp. This is not the raw signal, it's processed by preamp, which (among other things) is limiting the lows by not very severe high pass filter.
View attachment 3991033
These lines show 'distribution of power' aiming from the amp to the speaker. The biggest difference is on the left side: you can see that about 50% of 'power' is taken by the frequencies below 100 Hz. If you compare the two pictures, you can see that the amp creates much more power below 60 Hz than the acoustic bass does.

The last picture is the same two basses, through the same amp, but microphoned from the speaker.
View attachment 3991035
You can see that below 60 Hz, the signal drops rapidly, because my 6" speakers are not able to reproduce such a low sounds. But, if you compare with the first 'acoustic' pic, you can see that the overall shape of frequency response is very similar.

Conclusion:
a/ big amount of 'power' is 'wasted' on subsonic rumble, which will not be reproduced anyway.
b/ if you play more loudly, the loudnes would show in the right side of the pictures. Louder playing has impact on higher harmonics of the string, but these higher harmonics need much less power to be reproduced.

So:
If the AER sounds nice, it would probably sound as nice with a HPF, but would 'spare more power' for the frequencies that are important for the overall amplified sound. Try it.

Hello @jj.833 ,

Thanks for this answer, really intersting, but to be honest I understand Nothing
Not your fault, It's mine, I don't have enough knowledge.
I've read you two time ( tree time in few minutes) but :

To resume for a child ( as me ).
- AER could sound fine, it's enough power ( watts) ( bugera for, because aer it's too expensive, and for me a pro stuff)
- less is more ( watts / amps/ cab) to sound good.

--> it would probably sound as nice with a HPF --> HPF = high pass filter ?

 

[Ric Vice]

Great diagnostic and that's valuable information. It give lots of credence to using a HPF for Double Bass, since all that amplifier power is waisted on infrasonic frequencies. That's precisely why I only use the Grace Designs Felix.

There are other things that make the AER Compact 60 a less than ideal choice for Double Bass. Not enough control over midrange frequencies and it's only a 60 watt amplifier into an 8" speaker. Just my impressions of course.

AER makes the Bass Cube 2 specifically designed for Double Bass. The Compact 60 is a acoustic guitar amplifier.

 

[jj.833]

To resume for a child ( as me ).
- AER could sound fine, it's enough power ( watts) ( bugera for, because aer it's too expensive, and for me a pro stuff)
- less is more ( watts / amps/ cab) to sound good.

--> it would probably sound as nice with a HPF --> HPF = high pass filter ?

I undestand now that all this is not what @Les Fret was asking. I was thinking he's looking for how to use the school amp for bass. Since the bass AERs are so crazily expensive... but anyway. To resume for an inquiring child:
- sometimes, you don't need bigger amp for bigger sound. You can achieve a lot if you are smart with what you have.
- high pass filter (HPF) can cut the subsonic rumble, and use the 'spared power' for more important frequencies above 50-60 Hz.
- less is NOT more (though often it is). But more watts mean more kilograms to carry, which, at least in my area, usually means need of a car = need of more money = less gigs.

 

[Ric Vice]

I'll concede, that in the real world more power generally requires a bigger amplifier, and the HPF is very useful, especially if we are discussing a smaller combo amplifier.

My solution to this is problem is quite different. I have a powered speaker (MAS 1/8 v1) and a Headway EDB-2 preamplifier. This particular combo is plenty loud on stage

and very light weight. It's about the same price as the AER and much better suited for bass on a stage. So, there are many solutions. If you just want to improve the sound

of the AER then the HPF is the ideal one and lots less expensive.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

But more watts mean more kilograms to carry, which, at least in my area, usually means need of a car = need of more money = less gigs.

The micro amps are very powerful and very small and light.

 

[16fuss]

I have giged an Amp One quiet a bit. It sounds pretty good, if you do not need a tweeter. I play it without the fdeck, because it has better mids that way. It is too heavy.

 

[Earl]

I had the Amp one for years and while it was great for electric I spent most of those years figuring out how to get a decent upright sound with it, which never happened. Thinking again about the Compact 60 that I sold - It did not sound great with a pickup, however it worked much better when I used the Ischell with it, maybe because I had the HPF on the Ischell at 360.

 

[Antonio Abete]

I had the Amp one for years and while it was great for electric I spent most of those years figuring out how to get a decent upright sound with it, which never happened. Thinking again about the Compact 60 that I sold - It did not sound great with a pickup, however it worked much better when I used the Ischell with it, maybe because I had the HPF on the Ischell at 360.

I have the AER Basic Performer and it sounds great with DB

 

[longfinger]

AER 60 is a great amp for jazz guitar, acoustic guitar and vocalist's wanting control over their monitor or as a small PA. For bass it is good only in the bedroom situation IMO.

AER does make a Bass Cube, but for that price, I would investigate Acoustic Image products. I have a 2 channel AI Coda. Great little combo. The AI Coda sounds good to me on acoustic guitar, and archtop jazz guitar (even keyboard). You'll likely need pedals for the electric guitars to get a "sweet sound".

There are good bass amps for even lower prices if you are willing to go a bit heavier.

 

[Wasnex]

Why are strong accents causing a problem?

Below, on the pink-blue pic, there's a frequency response of two different double basses recorded by microphone (FFT, playing a whole blues 12bar in E). You can see that the first peak is about 60 Hz. Below, the subsonic rumble is more or less unimportant for your ear. For better understanding, see the 'phon' curve - this shows how our ear percieves 'the same volume'. To the ear, the 30Hz is about as loud as 4 kHz.
View attachment 3991032
The yellow-green pic below is how the same basses, playing the same notes, behave frequency-wise when lined out through my amp. This is not the raw signal, it's processed by preamp, which (among other things) is limiting the lows by not very severe high pass filter.
View attachment 3991033
These lines show 'distribution of power' aiming from the amp to the speaker. The biggest difference is on the left side: you can see that about 50% of 'power' is taken by the frequencies below 100 Hz. If you compare the two pictures, you can see that the amp creates much more power below 60 Hz than the acoustic bass does.

The last picture is the same two basses, through the same amp, but microphoned from the speaker.
View attachment 3991035
You can see that below 60 Hz, the signal drops rapidly, because my 6" speakers are not able to reproduce such a low sounds. But, if you compare with the first 'acoustic' pic, you can see that the overall shape of frequency response is very similar.

Conclusion:
a/ big amount of 'power' is 'wasted' on subsonic rumble, which will not be reproduced anyway.
b/ if you play more loudly, the loudnes would show in the right side of the pictures. Louder playing has impact on higher harmonics of the string, but these higher harmonics need much less power to be reproduced.

So:
If the AER sounds nice, it would probably sound as nice with a HPF, but would 'spare more power' for the frequencies that are important for the overall amplified sound. Try it.

@Stumbo should like this .

 

[PaulCannon]

I visited the AER factory today in Velbert, Germany.

Full disclosure: my ensemble is currently in discussions about a sponsorship deal with AER. I was not paid or asked to write this -- just my honest observations.

Really impressive operation there. Everything down to the microchips is made by hand in-house, except the box frame which is made in Hungary. Multiple levels of quality control as well. They double check every component on every amp before and after assembly. I don't think they're letting any lemons off the floor.

We also met the “think tank”, which is a room of engineers paid to come up with new ideas. They explained one of their biggest problems by now is that their amplifiers tend to have a very long lifespan, so people generally aren't coming back for more when their old amps are still working perfectly.

We play-tested their four bass amplifiers, with the NS Design CR5 bass along with an electric cello. Amp One and Amp Three are both compact. Amp One is probably the closest to the Compact 60, but it's a little bit heavier and really meant for bass (I would not recommend using a Compact 60 with a bass instrument, btw). For an amp of that size it's very fine, but for my taste perhaps the least interesting of the four.

Amp Two is designed for bass guitar. The pizzicato on the CR5 sounded absolutely dynamite on this thing, but arco sounded too artificial or "electric" for my taste. Amp Three is quite similar, just more compact. If I was looking for another bass guitar amp, I would seriously consider one of these two.

The Basic Performer 2 was exactly what I was looking for. It has a lot of power and range if you want it, but even at lower volume settings it sounds completely natural and clean. With the electric cello at low volume, it almost sounded acoustic. It's quite heavy, so not exactly a "compact" option -- if that's what you need, Amp One would be the nearest alternative from this company.

All in all, I had the impression that it's a well-run company full of people who really care about their work and take pride in making a high quality product. The selection is perhaps limited, but what they do produce is extremely well built.

 

[Ric Vice]

I actually played one of the original BassCubes and thought it was a remarkable amplifier. Unfortunately, they are quite heavy compared with a separate preamp and powered speaker.
One of my bass compatriots had an Amp One, and it was very difficult to EQ for Double Bass. Sounded great with Electric Bass. Just my take.