if you move your h-clamp to the top of the c-bout, you can mic the same area and still have room to bow.
jeff.
jeff.
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Double Bass Afterlength muting, the H clamp, and further proof that Einstein wasn't born in KY
- Thread starter Chris Fitzgerald
- Start date
Audio Technica is now making a fantastic small condenser mic, the ATM450. For the H-Clamp, it has two advantages. First, it is lightweight. Second, it is a side address design. This allows for extremely flexible positioning, because you don't have to have the boom as far from the top. I'll try to get a pic up to show what I mean. Of course, the fact that the mic has great sound ices the combo for me. Being a condenser, you do need phantom power. My 2-channel Focus head is perfect for using the mic blended with a Full Circle on my Pollmann.
Highly recommended.
George
Highly recommended.
George
After playing with a bunch of different mics including the DPA 4099 (brilliant for a signal to the FOH, but a bit too "live" for through-the-amp work for me), I've finally upgraded my Beta 57 to ....... a Beta 56. Same mic, different form factor that works better for my blue-collar, set-it-and-forget-it gigging rig, which includes the Headway EDB-1 when I want to blend. There are a lot of mics out there that sound better by themselves, but for blending with a pickup the hypercardiod dynamic Betas are a great idiotproof, bulletproof, and largely feedbackproof (within reason) solution.
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Got a pic of that on the bass? Through the afterlength or using an H clamp or what?
I don't have one, but would be happy to take one if anyone cares to see it. It's on the H-clamp, on the treble side near the bottom of the F hole. The way I've been using the mic, it provides only a little air in general and thickens up the sound of the D and G - mostly the G. The Beta 56 is a heavy bastard, but with the H-Clamp it doesn't much matter.
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Chris:
What determines when you decide to blend your mic and pick-up?
Size of venue? A particular sound you want? Size of group?
I have recently gone to a two-channel DI/EQ/pre and used it on stage for the first time at an outdoor festival this past weekend.
I blended two pickups, my BassMax with a Rev Solo, to add some high end detail. Sounded OK.No phase problems. My next move is to blend an Audix D2 with one pickup or the other.
Several factors:
* How lazy I'm feeling that day; plug in one cable and play is a beautiful enticement!
* How I've been feeling about my pickup-only sound lately. If I've been feeling the G sounds thin or fake, I'm more likely to do it.
* How artistic/spiritual the gig has a chance to be.
* Last, if the gig isn't likely to surpass that volume level beyond which a mic is more of a hindrance than a help.
I've tried mixing two pickups, but it always sounded like two pickups.
Chris:
I don't have to worry about the artistic/spritual category. I play bluegrass
.
I have been using the single pick-up/Baggs or Fishman eqDI ..then into the Board for many years and got the itch to try something different and bought a two-channel Ultrasound DI Max.
Sometimes when we set up at a festival there is not a lot of time after the previous band to work on blending a mic and the pickup. I experiment though my amp here at home but it does not always mean the same settings work on the job. Have to take the plunge sometime though and just do it (and play the 4 minute version of Orange Blossom Special instead of the 7 minute one at the end of the set!) on the grounds of artistic integrity.
I was surprised at how full my two pickups sounded. The Rev Solo has more transparency and highs than the BassMax. I like them both individually but together one seems to help the other.
Nice to have choices though.
Thanks for the information.
I don't have to worry about the artistic/spritual category. I play bluegrass
.I have been using the single pick-up/Baggs or Fishman eqDI ..then into the Board for many years and got the itch to try something different and bought a two-channel Ultrasound DI Max.
Sometimes when we set up at a festival there is not a lot of time after the previous band to work on blending a mic and the pickup. I experiment though my amp here at home but it does not always mean the same settings work on the job. Have to take the plunge sometime though and just do it (and play the 4 minute version of Orange Blossom Special instead of the 7 minute one at the end of the set!) on the grounds of artistic integrity.
I was surprised at how full my two pickups sounded. The Rev Solo has more transparency and highs than the BassMax. I like them both individually but together one seems to help the other.
Nice to have choices though.
Thanks for the information.
+1 Especially on the lazy factor, actually it's more of a how much do you want to schlep factor, how many extra boxes do you want to carry factor, how early do you have to get there to set all the stuff up factor, and will it actually sound better in Toby's Sports Bar factor. I only take complicated stuff to a concert and that's only if it's indoors.
Ric
Agreed, although for me it's more about who the other players are. With the Headway and the H-clamp/Beta 56 setup, I keep the gear in the pockets of the bass bag even though it adds weight. The setup, or "schlepup" is more the thing rather than the cartage. I have this vague notion that if I were to attach a mic stand extension to the side of the combo and keep the Headway on it and plugged in to the FX return, I'd probably use it more. I may do that if I find the right attaching hardware and see how it goes.
martinc said:I don't have to worry about the artistic/spritual category. I play bluegrass .
I hear you, but I've heard plenty of spiritual bluegrass around these parts. A joyful noise is a joyful noise, innit? Especially when there's well intonated three part vocal harmony involved. That **** kicks my *** every time.
We used to have a little jazz venue here in "Arch City". The players on that gig were either Paul Demarnis, Sandy Weltman, Steve Schenkle, and Scott Alberici. On that gig I didn't actually need the "extra tools". Since my basic rig is a Walter Woods and an EA VL 108 the Realist actually sounds great in that kind of setting. I don't drag the VL 208 out unless I really need serious presence in the room. I'm thinking that a powered speaker like PJB is going to build and the Headway might just be the ticket.
Rid
Ric
curious as what you mean by "too live" regarding the dpa. i can't imagine it being a quality that you can't tweak with the eq on the headway. i actually have a mic splitter so FOH can get a flat feed, while something eq'd can go to the amp, when necessary.
i wouldn't be comfortable with that much weight on the H-clamp ... which is why I bagged the Heil.
the dpa is just so "set and forget" ... for me, at least.
jeff.
i wouldn't be comfortable with that much weight on the H-clamp ... which is why I bagged the Heil.
the dpa is just so "set and forget" ... for me, at least.
jeff.
Anything I tweak on the Headway applies to both the pickup and the mic, so I wouldn't want to try to tame all possible feedback frequencies of a condenser mic and apply that curve to the pickup (when i did this, I got more volume, but it was a very "dull" volume with the mids and highs carved out). To me it comes down to this: The DPA is the best FOH bass mic I've ever seen. For live through-the-amp applications, I don't like using a condenser for the very reason that makes them great recording mics, namely that they capture a ton of detail. The frequencies at which "detail" is represented are (IMO) very feedback prone, and for some reason I seem to have a lot more luck with dynamic mics at the volume levels through an amp I'm using. More signal (albeit less detailed) to mix with the pickup, less feedback. The fact that I could jump up and down on a beta series mic and more likely hurt my feet than the mic is a big plus for me as well over the long run.
I hear you, and I thought I wouldn't be, either. But with the beta 56, because of the way the head of the mic swivels,
I can keep the arm of the H clamp almost perpendicular to the side of the bass and almost completely retracted because the spot I want to mic is close to the edge, so there's no instability, and it doesn't seem to affect the acoustic tone negatively that I can tell.
For me through an amp, the volume before feedback ratio didn't seem worth it, and when I got it to where it wasn't feeding back, I would have to check to make sure it was still on. Different strokes, I guess. I still really like the DPA for what it's good at, but sadly I don't have the opportunity to utilize FOH support very much these days.
Chris wrote:
"I hear you, but I've heard plenty of spiritual bluegrass around these parts. A joyful noise is a joyful noise, innit? Especially when there's well intonated three part vocal harmony involved. That **** kicks my *** every time."
Chris: Yes. For me all bluegrass music is a joyful noise...I have enjoyed and played it for more than 40 years. The harmonies make it all worthwhile.
The only real difference for me with the Ultrasound two channel box is that it is a bit bigger (7 1/2 x 5) than the Baggs Para-Acoustic or Fishman Platinum. It weighs the same as the Fishman. And I need one extra cord so the schlepping around factor has not changed too much. I do not use an amp on stage.
I have really enjoyed reading about your mic choices. I still need to work with the mic/pickup combination for a while. I like how my Audix D-2 sounds through my amp at home but the real test will come this weekend when I use it at a festival.
If my experimenting still leaves me with the same sound compromise as a single pickup, I may just drop the whole idea and go back to a single channel box.
It's fun being a gearhead.
"I hear you, but I've heard plenty of spiritual bluegrass around these parts. A joyful noise is a joyful noise, innit? Especially when there's well intonated three part vocal harmony involved. That **** kicks my *** every time."
Chris: Yes. For me all bluegrass music is a joyful noise...I have enjoyed and played it for more than 40 years.
The harmonies make it all worthwhile.The only real difference for me with the Ultrasound two channel box is that it is a bit bigger (7 1/2 x 5) than the Baggs Para-Acoustic or Fishman Platinum. It weighs the same as the Fishman. And I need one extra cord so the schlepping around factor has not changed too much. I do not use an amp on stage.
I have really enjoyed reading about your mic choices. I still need to work with the mic/pickup combination for a while. I like how my Audix D-2 sounds through my amp at home but the real test will come this weekend when I use it at a festival.
If my experimenting still leaves me with the same sound compromise as a single pickup, I may just drop the whole idea and go back to a single channel box.
It's fun being a gearhead.
For those of you who've bowed with the H-clamp, are there issues to be aware of? I'm concerned the bow will inadvertently knock into the H-clamp/mic., which would be on the treble side of the bass.
Also, what's the maximum safe load for H-clamp? My mic and shock mount are about 6 ounces / 171 grams. And does the mic cable significantly add to tug weight on the H-clamp?
I used to have an H-clamp that I experimented with on an acoustic bass guitar. That configuration didn't work well so I sold the H-clamp. Wondering if it's worth another look. I've tried several mics and mounting ideas on double bass that relied on extra weight to the tailplate and afterlengths. All of those approaches dampened resonance too much for my taste. I'm in early days with the double bass but have already come to marvel at how easy it is to muff the tone with add-on "gear." Thank you!
Also, what's the maximum safe load for H-clamp? My mic and shock mount are about 6 ounces / 171 grams. And does the mic cable significantly add to tug weight on the H-clamp?
I used to have an H-clamp that I experimented with on an acoustic bass guitar. That configuration didn't work well so I sold the H-clamp. Wondering if it's worth another look. I've tried several mics and mounting ideas on double bass that relied on extra weight to the tailplate and afterlengths. All of those approaches dampened resonance too much for my taste. I'm in early days with the double bass but have already come to marvel at how easy it is to muff the tone with add-on "gear." Thank you!
The DPA and it's very lightweight attachment works super well. No change to the bass sound - slightly helps with feed back. it's expensive.. though it's also my second bass mic in a two mic system. Very useful for other things in the studio too.
