So is Agathis really a bad tonewood? It's used on lower priced basses but what, exactly, are its tonal properties?
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Agathis Gets A Bad Rap?
- Thread starter BulbousMoses
- Start date
There's nothing wrong with it, and instruments have been made with it for years. Do a quick web search and you'll learn plenty about it.
The wood doesn't matter as much as the pickups, strings and the fingers of the guy playing it - so IMO there's not a lot to gain from worrying about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathis
The wood doesn't matter as much as the pickups, strings and the fingers of the guy playing it - so IMO there's not a lot to gain from worrying about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agathis
Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not worried about it really but I found a few threads that were really trashing the wood and I wondered why. I know that there are many different tonewoods out there, all with different properties but I figure that if Brian May can homebuild a guitar out of a fireplace mantle and have it sound like it did in Queen, then the wood may not be as big a deal as some would have you believe.
It's a cheap wood used on imports. I personally haven't found a problem with it,other than it's an ugly wood which is why you'll probably never see it natural. My squier VM p bass is made of agathis,and tons of people rave about those basses so it can't be too bad. From what I've experienced through my VM i love it,because that bass is so loud and resonant.
Well this is why I question the importance of the wood. I realize that it's important...I mean, they don't make many basses out of aluminum or bamboo so the wood does have an effect but how much is pickups and electronics and how much is the wood (and of course, how much is the player)
Impossible to say. Another question is: regardless of how much difference it makes, can the audience even hear that difference? for that matter, can you hear the difference?
I think too much emphasis is placed on the wood, to be honest. I have NEVER heard anyone say, after listening to a great song "Hey man, listen to that groove but that is obviously an Agathis bodied bass"
Exactly. In a band mix,no one is going to know if your bass is made out of walnut,or basswood.
One downfall is i believe it's a soft wood. But honestly I've found it doesnt matter when most import and modern basses in general are coated in a 1/8 of inch of poly.
Yup...in all likelihood, the bass will outlast me so I'm unconcerned about it being a softwood.
There will always the the bias that since it is not an expensive wood, it can't be all that good. Silly. Alder is a pretty common wood, and not particularly expensive. It doesn't look stunning in a natural finish, either, but I never hear people putting it down as a "cheap" wood.
Basswood got the same knee jerk "its cheap wood not good" reaction and still does among many. Yet many pros regarded as tops in their instrument,who tour the world with cds availabler worldwide choose it as their pref tonewood. I do think that with woods like basswood, agathis, & royal paulownia its even more important to have higher grade (sound peep luither pick, wise) then some other more "popular" tone woods. Where medium grade can still be concidered excellent. However agathis is also regarded as one of the most consistent and stable woods. With less variation of tonewood qaulity then most woods more accepted for instrument bodies.
To me agathis isnt as dark as mahogany but is darker then ash & alder. Its also a little less detailed in sound but has a slightly harder sound then mahogany. In the latter its more like the little tone tweak ebony givers compared to rosewood with fretboards. I'll take qaulity agathis over alder, ash, maple, & basswood. I'll also take a qaulity peice of agathis over a poor (in music instrument terms) peice of mahogany. But if given the chance Id take qaulity mahogany over qaulity agathis.
My order of pref for body wood is: Mahogany, with agathis as best alternate.
A soft wood? Nope, basswood and royal paulownia are and if poorer grade they can be problematically soft. However agathis is in the same hardness/strength area as mahogany in my experience. Its also generally regarded as a very stable & consistent wood. Ive owned several mahogany & agathis basses and guitars.
To me agathis isnt as dark as mahogany but is darker then ash & alder. Its also a little less detailed in sound but has a slightly harder sound then mahogany. In the latter its more like the little tone tweak ebony givers compared to rosewood with fretboards. I'll take qaulity agathis over alder, ash, maple, & basswood. I'll also take a qaulity peice of agathis over a poor (in music instrument terms) peice of mahogany. But if given the chance Id take qaulity mahogany over qaulity agathis.
My order of pref for body wood is: Mahogany, with agathis as best alternate.
A soft wood? Nope, basswood and royal paulownia are and if poorer grade they can be problematically soft. However agathis is in the same hardness/strength area as mahogany in my experience. Its also generally regarded as a very stable & consistent wood. Ive owned several mahogany & agathis basses and guitars.
So, in other words, those who refuse to buy certain models of Squiers because they are made with Agtahis (and they're's plenty of 'em) because they think it's crap wood are, at best, mistaken?
Let's look at history here: Leo Fender designed his guitars to work well, but also to maximize profit. Fenders were designed from the start to be mass produced, factory made guitars to be made by unskilled, or semi skilled workers, not professional Luthiers. Alder and Ash were the cheapest woods that worked for his methods. They were not chosen because they are superbly resonant tonewoods, but because they worked and were available at a reasonable price in the quantities needed.
These days, Agathis better fits that description for guitars made in the Far East. I have a number of Fender guitars and basses made from Agathis, and have no problems or issues with them whatsoever.
In my experience, as long as a guitar is not made from plywood, or chip board, the pickups really determine more of the sound than the wood.
These days, Agathis better fits that description for guitars made in the Far East. I have a number of Fender guitars and basses made from Agathis, and have no problems or issues with them whatsoever.
In my experience, as long as a guitar is not made from plywood, or chip board, the pickups really determine more of the sound than the wood.
+1.
Agathis is a very resonant wood. My 4-string is agathis-bodied and it can sustain till the end of time.
Pardon the hyperbole, but during songs like "Comfortably Numb" with a lot of whole notes it really stands out. Sounds awesome too.
And I recall someone saying that basswood was a crappy tonewood and used on cheaper basses. Then Ed Friedland deftly pointed out that the MM Bongo was made of basswood and that is certainly neither cheap, nor a bad instrument.
While I'm a bass player first and foremost, I also wear the guitard's hat as a musician as well. From a guitard's perspective, some of the best sounding Les Paul Burst Standards I've run across, were pretty poor on the flamed maple cap side of aesthetics. There can be a bit of an art to to the whole tone-wood thing; but I judge each instrument I get a chance to play on by the sum of it's total parts. If it sounds great and plays great, or can be made to play great, I couldn't care less if it's made of poplar, basswood, agathis, alder, maple, or whatever.
Nothing against basswood or Bongos but they do have a pretty hefty preamp which lends quite a bit to the tone.
