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Aguilar blue lights - Too Bright!

I can't stand the sight of blue LEDs and I won't own anything that has them. They become popular only because they were unavailable on the market for so long. Now blue LEDs are an affectation.

Get hip, manufacturers, and tune in to what users want. If the LEDs are too bright, instead of telling users that they'll love the bright lights if they ever have to play a sunny gig, just put a day/night dimmer button on the back of the amp to tone them down.

And get with the 21st Century. Multi-color LEDs are available so design a circuit that allows the user to choose the colors he wants on his amp. Put some extra buttons on the back of the amp to allow the user to configure his own colors.

And don't tell us that things have to be this way because you've designed a constant current switching circuit. So what if you're using a constant current switching circuit. The display LEDs don't have to be part of the control circuit. Think outside of the box.
 
I can't stand the sight of blue LEDs and I won't own anything that has them. They become popular only because they were unavailable on the market for so long. Now blue LEDs are an affectation.

Get hip, manufacturers, and tune in to what users want. If the LEDs are too bright, instead of telling users that they'll love the bright lights if they ever have to play a sunny gig, just put a day/night dimmer button on the back of the amp to tone them down.

And get with the 21st Century. Multi-color LEDs are available so design a circuit that allows the user to choose the colors he wants on his amp. Put some extra buttons on the back of the amp to allow the user to configure his own colors.

And don't tell us that things have to be this way because you've designed a constant current switching circuit. So what if you're using a constant current switching circuit. The display LEDs don't have to be part of the control circuit. Think outside of the box.
And the price of the amp just went up by $100 :hiding:
 
And the price of the amp just went up by $100 :hiding:

The key thing to understand is that the price doesn't have to go up by $100 unless someone is trying to have their way with your wallet. We're talking about a little R&D effort to make the change, and an insignificant incremental production cost in terms of parts.

But even if the price did go up, the result would be that you would have a choice available to you that you don't have now. Then people could vote with their wallets. That's the beauty of a free market.
 
This post will be a bit of a rant about robust design principles and making a product that won't fail under real world use. But it isn't directed at anyone in particular -- agedhorse's post just put me into a state of musing about the elements of robust circuit design.

edit: As I proofread this post, I realize that it has actually turned into a rant about Mesa, so I guess it is directed at someone. To be fair, it would also apply to any other circuit designer who makes the same kind of design mistakes that Mesa made.


Just a heads up that this may not be a good idea for amps that use the current steered through the LEDs as part of the switching logic in a footswitched amp. I know our amps are not the only ones that do this, and changing the current (brightness of LEDs) can affect the operation of the switching logic as it's based on a voltage shifting constant current loop. This is a very effective, robust and troublefree method of discrete logic management.

I understand the rationale for the use of switching logic. But what I've never understood is why engineers will fail to protect the switching logic from damage by putting components of the logic circuit on the outside of the amp where they are at-risk for being subjected to trauma.

Bass amps are subject to wear and tear and contact on the road. It's a fact of life. If you go mounting switching logic components on the front panel of an amp, that could be a recipe for disaster -- One good hit on a front panel LED that has the switching logic passing through it, and BAM! your switching logic is busted. Now the amp's features can't be switched.

The smart manufacturers aren't putting the logic LEDs right on the face panel, because the face panel constitutes an exposed, threatened environment. It makes more sense to keep the logic LEDs mounted inside of the protective confines of the chassis, and to use them as backlighting, rather than as exposed elements.

For those LEDs that are mounted directly on the front panel, or any other externalized part of the chassis, it's just dumb to route internal control logic through a component that's mounted where it's accessible to the outside world, because external contact / damage to that component will interrupt the logic circuit.

A smarter idea would be to confine as many as possible of the switching logic components to the interior of the chassis, and to make the externalized components controlled by the switching logic, rather than a part of the switching logic. That way if you bash-in an LED, you only lose the indicator lamp that's controlled by the switching logic, rather than losing the switching logic itself.

Robust design parameters require that when an indicator lamp fails, that only the lamp fails, and that a logic circuit isn't compromised by a lamp failure. Granted, we're not talking about military-grade reliability, but I honestly think that some of the designers out there only think about the task of designing their circuit, and don't pay a lot of attention to making the actual product bulletproof in the field.

I'm one of those guys who thinks that switching logic passing through a front-panel LED would be a bad idea. It creates a failure mode that doesn't have to exist.



Here's an example where MESA really shot themselves in the foot:

I ran across this exact sort of problem with a MESA amp that has LED channel-activity indicators on the footswitch. The genius that designed the switching logic routed the logic signal for every channel through it's own LED that's on a footswitch. For Pete's sake, the footswitch is deigned to be stepped on, and the LED is mounted right there. Murphy's Law tells us that if you put switching logic in a place where it's going to get regular contact with THE BOOT, then the switching logic is going to fail.

Indeed, that's what happened. The frail little LED in it's plastic mount couldn't take the abuse of an enthusiastic thrashing guitarist stomping on it, and the poor little LED broke-off one of it's hair-thin leads, causing the logic circuit to fail. The result is that the amp was stuck in one channel. The switching logic would no longer switch channels, and the guitarist was stuck with a 3 channel amp that was stuck in lead mode.

A smarter design would put the footswitch LED under the control of the logic circuit without actually being a part of the logic control circuit. That way, when the LED gets thrashed under the boot, the indicator lamp fails to work but the switching logic in the amp keeps on working, and the user can finish the gig. (It's better to lose an LED lamp than to lose a whole amp.)

If anything, this sort of thing teaches us a lesson in intelligent design. It's a bad idea to put logic circuitry in an interface where it should be expected to fail. I think that in the case I'm describing, the design engineer made a critical error by failing to think things through. Maybe he was a smart EE who wasn't a musician, and he just didn't understand why it would be a bad idea to run the amp's control logic through a footswitch LED. In cases like this, it pays to have people who actually use this type of gear on the design team, or to at least beta-test the design with real musicians.
 
We haven't had any issues with logic, indicator LEDs and footswitches. My point about the risk of damage is if you go into the amp and CHANGE the circuitry. The logic and switching is just about totally foolproof and very, very robust. It's all been considered within the circuit design.
 
First world problems.


This thread exists, yet somewhere, someone is wondering where their next meal will come from.


They're hanging out on TalkMeal, not TalkBass. Maybe you should try to catch up with them. Or you could go put in time down at the food pantry helping out rather than try killing this conversation.
 
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TH500 is my favorite amp ever! I've had a number of amps with these blue LED's. Never had a complaint, they look good out in the audience (the pictures definitely 'overstate' the issue IMO). Zero issue for me. I guess, again, if it bothers anyone, a touch of nail polish will darken it up!
 
The pictures always overstate the brightness because the CCD sensor exposure levels average the brightness over an area. This means that the bright spots are way overexposed in an otherwise darker photo. We ran into this all the time when making photos for brochures. Hold the photo next to the actual amp and it was totally obvious.
 
I can't stand the sight of blue LEDs and I won't own anything that has them. They become popular only because they were unavailable on the market for so long. Now blue LEDs are an affectation.

Get hip, manufacturers, and tune in to what users want. If the LEDs are too bright, instead of telling users that they'll love the bright lights if they ever have to play a sunny gig, just put a day/night dimmer button on the back of the amp to tone them down.

And get with the 21st Century. Multi-color LEDs are available so design a circuit that allows the user to choose the colors he wants on his amp. Put some extra buttons on the back of the amp to allow the user to configure his own colors.

And don't tell us that things have to be this way because you've designed a constant current switching circuit. So what if you're using a constant current switching circuit. The display LEDs don't have to be part of the control circuit. Think outside of the box.

I don't want any extra crap on my amp just to change/customise LEDs... It's not a Christmas tree... No offence...
Some people think less is more, less points of potential failure...
 

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