Aguilar or Mesa Subway D-800

[fishdude101101]

We are all different. I could not get along with the Tone Hammer but love the Mesa 800+. The Tone Hammer is not going to give you bright and snappy. As an other said, the Tone Hammer is wooly. I still use a Tone Hammer pre amp.

I own and ag700 and a mesa d800 +. Both are great amps. Never could get along with the tone hammer I had though.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

What’s the general thoughts between a Aguilar Tone Hammer 700 vs a Mesa Subway D-800?

People love the tone hammer, but word is you have to spend some time with it. The preamp is a little funky.

The Mesa will always sound great.

 

[willddd]

I also have the TH500 and the D800. I agree with much of what has already been said, including that the Aguilar is generally thicker sounding and the Mesa generally cleaner. You do need to try them, even better if you can try them with the speaker(s) you intend to pair the amp with.

I've not tried the mesa, but had an AG700. I thought it was awesome, outrageously powerful and super clean, but for me the 'thickness' of the bottom end and low mids (with a berg 212) was both awe (and headache) inspiring, and also too much for me. I ended up with a berg B|amp that has a variable hpf and lots of stuff to temper that low end power. If I was younger and still wanting to damage stuff, or if I was someone searching for 'the brown note', then the AG700 would deliver. All jokes aside, it's a great amp that puts it all out there, and clean. If you want 'more' it can do it. I discovered I don't want *that* much more.

Edit: Having said all that, the best desk mix I've had in recent memory was with the Aggie with a post EQ (accidentally) DI send. At the time I felt I was just trying to keep the bottom end under control, but the end result from the desk mix was very pleasing. All that power might be a good thing to have in the end (headaches notwithstanding)

 

[groooooove]

both are pretty widely loved amps.

for me, mesa is the "better" amp. Not that the aguilar is "unreliable" but man, the mesa is just so rock solid. it sounds amazing, has insane power, 2 ohms...

about as close to a perfect amp as it gets.

 

[two fingers]

The Aggy has a warm-and -wooly baked-in tone to me. That's not a bad thing. It just is what it is.

I haven't used the D800, but I imagine there are at least some similarities between that and the Subway channel of my TT800. (I'm prepared to be corrected.) It can get warm. But it can also go squeaky clean to my ears. It's just more versatile in my view.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I really doubt I would even be able to tell the difference in a blind fold test.

i would probably fiddle around with the knobs on both until I sounded like my preferred tone, and then I couldn’t tell them apart…

 

[Erik Turkman]

26869358[/URL], member: 322364"]People love the tone hammer, but word is you have to spend some time with it. The preamp is a little funky.

The Mesa will always sound great.

Indeed, the Tone Hammer series has a unique preamp. The Gain and Drive don’t work the way you would ordinarily expect. It does take a little while to get used to it. There are threads around here that go into detail about various settings. The Mesa is more intuitive in its functions.

 

[Z-Bass]

I own and ag700 and a mesa d800 +. Both are great amps.

I was going to say that the AG700 might be a better comparison to the D800. Although their overall voicing and structure will be different, these are at least in the same area code as far as being more on the modern side of things. I know another bass player in town who has an AG700 and has had nothing but great things to say about it. The drummer that plays with him also speaks highly of his tone when they gig.

Our rehearsal space used to have a D-800+ and I thought is sounded great and was easy to get a good sound. Solid, clean, and flexible. I know you're not asking about the D-800+ but I thought the extra features on this model (HPF, extra EQ functionality) would be very useful for live work, having enough adjustment for whatever room/stage conditions come your way.

This is a tough one. It'll come down to your tone preferences and how each amp responds to your playing but you've narrowed it down to a couple of great amps for sure.

 

[Lemur Bassman]

Yea, those are two very different-sounding amps. What kinda stuff do you play and what are your tonal goals?

Mesa Boogie Subway 800+ vs AG700. I play blues rock with improve....so think about early Led Zep, Allman Brothers Band (early) and the Grandfunk Railroad "Red" album. I also am a 2x15 bassist. Which one of these amps would suit best?

 

[Al Kraft]

I found the TH500 rather difficult to dial in a sound that I liked. Sorry, but I don't remember exactly why. But the D800 was immediate and really satisfying. Great amp.

This is not an uncommon situation with the TH heads. I like my TH500, but there is a learning curve to using it and it's not immediately intuitive. My D-800 is very intuitive to use from the minute you turn it on.

FWIW, that's not a criticism of the Aguilar or a reason to buy the Mesa over the Aguilar. If you take a little time with TH to fully understand how its controls interact and you like how it's voiced, it is a fine amp.

 

[Lemur Bassman]

I was making a similar choice a couple years ago, but between the ag700 and D-800+. I was able to get them both next to each other and compared them on my own regular cab, and although I was blown away by both, the Aguilar really spoke to me and I ended up going for it. The controls and features worked very quickly and intuitively for me and my taste, but there are countless people for which the Mesa has the advantage, just to their taste.

I don't know if there's any way to give real specific advice between two great products, and to be clear I've never played the Tone Hammer myself, but if you can find any way to get at them in real life, the decision becomes easier to make. Apologies for the obvious advice, but it really helped me make my choice! At the end of the day I'll bet you wouldn't be let down by either of them.

Thanks for this insight! I am in the same boat now...Mesa Boogie Subway 800+ or AG700. I am also a 2x15 guy and play blues rock-improv (Allman Brothers band-early, Grandfunk Railroad-Red album, early Led Zep, you get the picture). Any further insights for me?

 

[KevInDaBassment]

In your shoes....I'd get the D800

 

[fishdude101101]

I was going to say that the AG700 might be a better comparison to the D800. Although their overall voicing and structure will be different, these are at least in the same area code as far as being more on the modern side of things. I know another bass player in town who has an AG700 and has had nothing but great things to say about it. The drummer that plays with him also speaks highly of his tone when they gig.

Our rehearsal space used to have a D-800+ and I thought is sounded great and was easy to get a good sound. Solid, clean, and flexible. I know you're not asking about the D-800+ but I thought the extra features on this model (HPF, extra EQ functionality) would be very useful for live work, having enough adjustment for whatever room/stage conditions come your way.

This is a tough one. It'll come down to your tone preferences and how each amp responds to your playing but you've narrowed it down to a couple of great amps for sure.

The only negatives I can say about the AG 700 is the lack of built in HPF and the fan is a little noisy by modern class D standards. No complaints about my d800+.

 

[braud357]

Have played both, and for my taste (and ears) - Mesa by a MILE !!

 

[fishdude101101]

People love the tone hammer, but word is you have to spend some time with it. The preamp is a little funky.

The Mesa will always sound great.

This is my experience. Oddly enough I can get a long with their TH pedal better, It just seems like its not the same voicing exactly.

 

[musicman556]

Mesa Boogie Subway 800+ vs AG700. I play blues rock with improve....so think about early Led Zep, Allman Brothers Band (early) and the Grandfunk Railroad "Red" album. I also am a 2x15 bassist. Which one of these amps would suit best?

I don't have the D800 but have played with them here and there. Instead I have a TT800, as well as a Tone Hammer 500 and a GK Legacy 800 on hand. The Tone Hammer controls are unlike any other. Lots of threads about that here on TB.

What I'm hearing is that you want thick, "tube-y" (insert can of worms) goodness and warm gritty drive. I can't think of a better description for the Tone Hammer heads than that. It's like playing a warm hug that wants to crush your ribs. It has been said by many others and myself that the Tone Hammer sounds more like what the mental archetype of a classic tube amp should sound like than most actual tube amps. It's crazy how they've built so much character into a non-tube pre class D amp.

The caveat is that the Aggie TH will NEVER get squeaky clean or bright. You CANNOT put back in with EQ the top-end airiness that is naturally voiced-out of that amp. (That's why I have the Legacy, haha!) The D800 will do more things better than the Tone Hammer will. But the Tone Hammer will give you that classic Grand Funk funk by the dumptruck load unlike any other Class D amp, imho.

Read up on the Tone Hammer Gain and Drive controls before you go try one out. I truly feel that a large percentage of the negative reviews around the TH are built on two things: 1) The user just not quite understanding those gain and drive controls. Their function is counterintuitive to their names, and it threw me for a loop as well. Once I read up on them and actually understood what was happening from an EQ/drive perspective, it became super easy to leave the EQ flat and just use those two knobs to quickly get to to where I wanted to be for a certain sound, then a smidge of EQ work to get you the rest of the way.
2) And most importantly, the user was probably looking for a bit more of a modern or brighter sound. Those are things a Tone Hammer just won't do. Ever.

A note about cabinet matching with these amps. I do believe the D800 will sound good with more cabinets in general, as it has less of a native/baked in sound. You can easily EQ in or out some top end to account for either aggressive or lackluster tweeters or upper-mid range response of a cabinet. You are starting closer to neutral in terms of overall response with the D800. This isn't about overdrive or distortion, but the native in-out sound reproduction of the preamp and poweramp, imho.

The ToneHammer, on the other hand, can turn to mud if also paired with a really dark/warm cabinet. If the cab design already stinks at upper mids, especially, you are TOAST. Note definition disappears and you are forced to just crank the volume to hear what you are playing. That's no fun for ANYONE, and leads to the headaches (literal) that I think someone else mentioned further up. I absolutely love pairing the Tone Hammer with my Mesa Subway cabs. Doesn't matter if it's the 115, 210, or both. It's just a delight. On the other end of the spectrum, I had an Ampeg Heritage SVT410HLF cab for a number of years. It sounded great with any neutral or bright amps, but that cab and the Tone Hammer just became muddy earthquake city.

I feel like the AG700 and D800 amps are closer to each other than the TH700 and D800. The TH is out in its own field when it comes to class D amps. Up to you whether that's what you're looking for or not.

My experiences with with the Tone Hammer, Mesa, and Legacy heads, which cover a lot of different ground, drove me to change my approach to cabinets. I now only have fairly neutral, powerful, cabinets such as the Subways and some GK Neo cabs. It's all a matter of personal preference and approach, but I have come to the place where I want to get the specific tone I want from the amp I choose, and I want cabs that will work well with either end of the spectrum.

Good luck on your search!

 

[Boundary Effect]

I found the TH500 rather difficult to dial in a sound that I liked. Sorry, but I don't remember exactly why. But the D800 was immediate and really satisfying. Great amp.

I get this. I find my TH500 good for "getting sounds" in the woodshed or recording, but when on-stage without PA support, it was difficult to tame acoustical issues. I had thoughts of adding a parametric EQ to the eFx loop, but I cannot move around enough to have a true assessment of the issues and would probably end up making things worse, though better for where I'm standing. Going from a rear ported cabinet (MB NY122) to a front ported (nEarful 15/6/1) helped.

 

[Lemur Bassman]

I don't have the D800 but have played with them here and there. Instead I have a TT800, as well as a Tone Hammer 500 and a GK Legacy 800 on hand. The Tone Hammer controls are unlike any other. Lots of threads about that here on TB.

What I'm hearing is that you want thick, "tube-y" (insert can of worms) goodness and warm gritty drive. I can't think of a better description for the Tone Hammer heads than that. It's like playing a warm hug that wants to crush your ribs. It has been said by many others and myself that the Tone Hammer sounds more like what the mental archetype of a classic tube amp should sound like than most actual tube amps. It's crazy how they've built so much character into a non-tube pre class D amp.

The caveat is that the Aggie TH will NEVER get squeaky clean or bright. You CANNOT put back in with EQ the top-end airiness that is naturally voiced-out of that amp. (That's why I have the Legacy, haha!) The D800 will do more things better than the Tone Hammer will. But the Tone Hammer will give you that classic Grand Funk funk by the dumptruck load unlike any other Class D amp, imho.

Read up on the Tone Hammer Gain and Drive controls before you go try one out. I truly feel that a large percentage of the negative reviews around the TH are built on two things: 1) The user just not quite understanding those gain and drive controls. Their function is counterintuitive to their names, and it threw me for a loop as well. Once I read up on them and actually understood what was happening from an EQ/drive perspective, it became super easy to leave the EQ flat and just use those two knobs to quickly get to to where I wanted to be for a certain sound, then a smidge of EQ work to get you the rest of the way.
2) And most importantly, the user was probably looking for a bit more of a modern or brighter sound. Those are things a Tone Hammer just won't do. Ever.

A note about cabinet matching with these amps. I do believe the D800 will sound good with more cabinets in general, as it has less of a native/baked in sound. You can easily EQ in or out some top end to account for either aggressive or lackluster tweeters or upper-mid range response of a cabinet. You are starting closer to neutral in terms of overall response with the D800. This isn't about overdrive or distortion, but the native in-out sound reproduction of the preamp and poweramp, imho.

The ToneHammer, on the other hand, can turn to mud if also paired with a really dark/warm cabinet. If the cab design already stinks at upper mids, especially, you are TOAST. Note definition disappears and you are forced to just crank the volume to hear what you are playing. That's no fun for ANYONE, and leads to the headaches (literal) that I think someone else mentioned further up. I absolutely love pairing the Tone Hammer with my Mesa Subway cabs. Doesn't matter if it's the 115, 210, or both. It's just a delight. On the other end of the spectrum, I had an Ampeg Heritage SVT410HLF cab for a number of years. It sounded great with any neutral or bright amps, but that cab and the Tone Hammer just became muddy earthquake city.

I feel like the AG700 and D800 amps are closer to each other than the TH700 and D800. The TH is out in its own field when it comes to class D amps. Up to you whether that's what you're looking for or not.

My experiences with with the Tone Hammer, Mesa, and Legacy heads, which cover a lot of different ground, drove me to change my approach to cabinets. I now only have fairly neutral, powerful, cabinets such as the Subways and some GK Neo cabs. It's all a matter of personal preference and approach, but I have come to the place where I want to get the specific tone I want from the amp I choose, and I want cabs that will work well with either end of the spectrum.

Good luck on your search!

Thanks SO much for taking the time and thought that you put into it! I REALLY appreciate it and it's extremely helpful. Peace brother!

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I've not owned the Mesa.

I did own a Tone Hammer for a short while. Personally I didn't like it at all. It had a kinda baked in "nasal" quality in the mids that I suspect can be very hit-or-miss depending on personal taste. I can see people aiming for a Jaco tone (or people who like the tone of bridge pickups in general) loving the Tone Hammer. I'm a neck pickup person and prefer FAT over growl and the Tone Hammer just didn't provide that kind of tone. The lows were tight rather than fat, which isn't necessarily a bad thing of course but more a matter of taste. I also found it a bit "stiff" dynamically but I'm a tube amp nerd and find most solid state amps a bit like that to be honest.

Don't get me wrong, the Tone Hammer is a solid product but I would try before buying to make sure the tonal profile suits you. I found it impossible to dial in MY kinda tone (which can of course be miles away from YOUR kinda tone). Personally I ended up selling it, even though it meant going back to lifting heavy transformers... and I'm not getting any younger.

 

[musicman556]

Thanks SO much for taking the time and thought that you put into it! I REALLY appreciate it and it's extremely helpful. Peace brother!

No prob, Bro! If you happen to be coming through Nashville ay time soon, you're welcome to come try a bunch of stuff out.