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Alder body vs. Swamp Ash body

#21
FWIW, I've built several basses with Warmoth bodies and if going for a solid color bass I use Alder, if a sunburst or clear finish I go with Swamp ash. It's purely for looks and I can't tell .02% difference in sound in side-by-side comparison. If weight is your main concern, call Warmoth and ask them to hand pick a light weight blank for you. They charge about $40 extra but it could be worth it for a bass that's more comfortable for you. Or, go with a chambered body. I love my latest build, Alder chambered body with Swamp Ash top. 4lbs of sunburst joy.
B.
 
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#22
EString said:
I'm confused! I always thought that Swamp Ash was heavier than Alder! I know that Norther Hard Ash definately is (the stuff they used on the late 70's Fender basses). The Warmoth home page (Invalid Link Removed) seems to say that Swamp Ash is heavier than Alder. Who is right? I must know!!! I am choosing a new bass soon and this could play a critical role in my decision!
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Don’t know which is heavier and i can’t speak to tonal differences, but given a choice i’ll choose ash for no other reason than it takes and maintains good threads better than most other woods used for bass bodies. You can tighten screws tighter with less chance of the holes punking out.
 
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#25
maturanesa said:
Swamp Ash is usually lighter in weight and color too. Thats the only fact. Then you can expect lighter basses to have a little more bass and heavier ones a bit more treble and mids but in a non scientific way..
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Don’t know where you get your info from but it’s wrong Red Alder used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 28 lbs/ft3 (450 kg/m3) Oregon Ash used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 38 lbs/ft3 (610 kg/m3). Swamp ash used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 30-33.6 lbs/ft3 (481-538 kg/m3) My Ash basses have have always been heavier than my Alder basses. Ash is a Lighter color is correct but generally it’s heavier than Alder
 
#27
Rodslinger said:
Correct! But still heavier than Alder but it rarely makes a difference
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The folks at Dingwall disagree with you. When spec'ing out my Super J that's currently being built I told them that a goal weight in the low 8lbs range would be ideal for me, they suggested swamp ash over alder as it is consistently lighter in their builds.
 
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#28
Rodslinger said:
Correct! But still heavier than Alder but it rarely makes a difference
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Perhaps on average the swamp ash is heavier, but I have two basses of "swamp ash" that are far lighter than any similarly sized alder instruments I have ever had. But that's the point - since swamp ash is not a species, you can't compare it to something that is. All we can say is that some pieces of some ash are lighter than some pieces of alder. And vice versa.
 
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#29
Turnaround said:
Perhaps on average the swamp ash is heavier, but I have two basses of "swamp ash" that are far lighter than any similarly sized alder instruments I have ever had. But that's the point - since swamp ash is not a species, you can't compare it to something that is. All we can say is that some pieces of some ash are lighter than some pieces of alder. And vice versa.
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True from a builders perspective but from the harvesting of said wood ash in any form will be heavier than alder in any form. I have two ash Fender jazz bases. The one on the left (rosewood) is 8lbs flat and the one on the right (Pau Ferro) is 9lbs flat. Ash weight is all over the place while Alder is more stable
 

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#30
Rodslinger said:
True from a builders perspective but from the harvesting of said wood ash in any form will be heavier than alder in any form. I have two ash Fender jazz bases. The one on the left (rosewood) is 8lbs flat and the one on the right (Pau Ferro) is 9lbs flat. Ash weight is all over the place while Alder is more stable
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And my Alder 4-string Jazz was 9.8 lb. and my Swamp Ash 5-string bass which has a larger body than the Fender weighs in just under 8. An Ash Precision is in the shop and it is just over 10. As you say, Ash is all over the place.
 
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#31
Turnaround said:
And my Alder 4-string Jazz was 9.8 lb. and my Swamp Ash 5-string bass which has a larger body than the Fender weighs in just under 8. An Ash Precision is in the shop and it is just over 10. As you say, Ash is all over the place.
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It seriously is all over the place. I recently returned a new Fender Performer Jazz Bass. It was the lightest Fender Alder body jazz I’ve ever picked up. Only reason I returned it is because it didn’t hold a candle to my Ash body MIM Jazz Bass.
 
#32
Rodslinger said:
Don’t know where you get your info from but it’s wrong Red Alder used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 28 lbs/ft3 (450 kg/m3) Oregon Ash used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 38 lbs/ft3 (610 kg/m3). Swamp ash used in most American made basses: Average dried weight 30-33.6 lbs/ft3 (481-538 kg/m3) My Ash basses have have always been heavier than my Alder basses. Ash is a Lighter color is correct but generally it’s heavier than Alder
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I dont imagine Dingwall saying the opposite of you and being wrong.
You are probably coping info from a wood database instead of asking the builders who select the actual piece of woods for their basses...
 
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#33
Ok, to summarize, alder is more consistent in weight and tone and emphasizes low-mids. Ash and swamp ash look better but but tend towards a a more full-range tone and are less consistent in weight - Northern Ash tends to be heavy and Swamp Ash is all over the weight spectrum. In either case, but in ash in particular, there is a lot of variation and you don't know what it sounds and feels like until you play it.
 
#34
MJT will also handpick a lightweight body in either ash or alder if you have a specific weight in mind.

I have a few Fenders (& MJT's) in ash and alder. All of my basses are about 8 lbs. I had two Nate Mendels (ash) that had about 1.5 lbs. difference in weight. The heaviest I ever owned was an early 70's in ash. The body alone was around/over 7 lbs. 70's ash Fenders have a reputation for being heavyweights. They were basses-by-bean-counters who bought whatever ash was cheap. i.e. not swamp ash, typically northern ash. The point being, as others have said, there is no guarantee that wood type = weight.
I had an "ash-period" and collected or built a bunch of ash basses, all lightweights, but I found that I "usually" took my alder P's to the gig. There is something that is "so right" about an alder-bodied P with a rosewood board.
Of course, I am currently loving my maple/walnut 4003SW Ric! :)

OP probably has kids born and graduated from High-school by now. Ha!
 
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#35
From Mike Lull (RIP):
Louisiana Southern Ash, which is what swamp ash is, varies in weight dramatically. The bottom portion of the tree is very light, while the middle is kind of medium weight the top of the tree is heavy. We’ve all seen vintage Fender basses from the late ‘60s and early ‘70s that weighed thirteen pounds and were just exceedingly heavy. That was just a different portion of the tree that was being used.

Most of the lightweight alder is gone. Lightweight alder would be old growth stuff. Most of that wood is gone, because alder was considered a firewood over here on the West Coast in particular, and those groves of those big trees are gone and they’re using newer wood. We’re chambering our alder bodies to get the weight the way we want it to be, which is coming in at about seven and a half to eight pounds. Some are a little lighter, some a little heavier, but nothing is over nine pounds. The five-strings come in between eight and nine pounds. By chambering the alder bodies, we’re able to keep that weight factor down, which makes them sound much more like the vintage basses from the ‘50s and ‘60s. So weight is a big factor.
 
#36
My experience, having owned basses with both body woods, YMMV:
1) Alder to me is the even toned "tastes like chicken" wood, very even tonally top to bottom, which makes it very versatile IMO.
2) Light ash to me has a little bit of low mid scoop, tight lows, articulate highs.
 
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#38
Ash/Swamp Ash has different weights in as much as wood is not uniform. I recently worked with Warmoth on a medium scale build and paid an up-charge for "extra light" swamp ash. So, it doesn't seem that there are any really and guarantees. I know that swamp ash tends to be lighter, but the drift I got is that all wood varies.
I have a P-bass that is ash with maple board, and a medium scale PJ that is extra-light swamp ash with a roasted flame maple board. Both are passive. Both are different from one another because of these characteristics, but it keeps going. I have a standard Fender Mex P bass pickup in the P bass, and a Lindy Fralin PJ set in the medium scale.
Taking all into consideration, I would say that, with EQ flat and all things that can be equal being equal, my P bass sounds a little more earthy and less punchy, and the MS PJ sounds a little more focused and a little more punchy. Both have a very cool vibe. I would say that if I put my mind to it, I could probably eq both to be very similar to one another. If my collection grew past 2 basses, and needed to be reduced, It would for sure only come down to those last 2 and stick there.
There are lots of considerations beyond wood. If you pulled the trigger on one, and regretted not getting the other, I'll bet that tone-wise, you could walk it back a pretty acceptable amount by changing out potentiometers to a different K value, maybe swapping pickups, aluminum bridge vs brass or steel bridge, bone or even a metal nut vs. other materials, string choice... There are things you can do beyond wood.
Me, If I were to build any future bass I was going to get, I'd go with light weight swamp ash and roasted neck every time, and then tweak for purpose via making choices with everything else I just mentioned. Good Luck!!
 

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