All-tube amp advantages?

[Hambone 70]

OK. Apart from increased cost, weight and maintenance, and lower reliability, what are the actual tangible benefits of all-tube bass amp design that cannot be accurately reproduced in modern solid-state design?

Thanks in anticipation!

P.S. I'm looking for a really good reason to spring for a Bassman 100T... or V-4B...?

 

[spiritbass]

No need for a gym membership! Waiting for others to pop in and shoot down the myth of "lower reliability"... On topic - I haven't played all of them, but nothing else sounds and feels the same. My completely non-scientific opinion.

 

[deathness]

Yeah, I'm not sure "lower reliability" is a fair generalization. So many tube amps 40-50 years old still capable of constant use if maintained at all. In fact, the simplicity of some all-tube designs might contribute to better reliability over time when compared to more complicated ss designs.

As far as benefits, the overdrive one can achieve from a tube pre into a tube power section is a beautiful thing. What I've found in my limited tube amp experience is that, before breakup at clean gain levels, tubes can lend a richness and depth to tone that is difficult (not impossible but difficult) to replicate in solid state designs.

Obviously, you can generalize about amp design all you want. Some ss amps are great and some are trash. Some tube amps are great and some are trash.

 

[Hambone 70]

I'm glad to read that "lower reliability" isn't necessarily an issue. I'm still planning on keeping a small class-D backup, just in case...

 

[MobileHolmes]

It's a different tone and feel that just isn't really available via pedal. That said, while I prefer tube guitar amps, I generally prefer the sound of SS bass amps. And then of course there is the cost and convenience factor.

 

[Hambone 70]

Is there a certain intangible old-school feeling knowing that there's not an integrated circuit in sight, that all sound is flowing through living, breathing, glowing tubes?

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Tube amps generally have a presence that is not as inherent in solid-state amps. This is probably more apparent when comparing tube and solid state guitar amps, but it's also a difference, albeit with a smaller effect, when comparing tube and solid state bass amps. Also, tube amps - particularly if they are a quality tube amp - are generally more three-dimensional than solid state amps. That is to say that tube amps, on whole, are usually more harmonically complex.

With all that said, I don't think that tube amps are automatically "better" than solid state amps. I have a number of all-tube amps, but I also have solid state amps that are great as well. I'm just into great sounding amps.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Is there a certain intangible old-school feeling knowing that there's not an integrated circuit in sight, that all sound is flowing through living, breathing, glowing tubes?

My opinion is yes, but honestly, it's a real subjective experience. There are solid state amps that are quite dynamic as well, particularly if they have tube preamps.

 

[Hambone 70]

Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an IC or two lurking in the innards of the Bassman...

 

[bassdude51]

Well, as if this subject has not been covered over the years here on TalkBass.

The bottom line is that tube amps are the best for sound amplification. Whether bass, guitar or stereo, tubes are best.

But the "but". Today's solid state amps are fantastic and IMHO might be within 97% as good as tubes. Also, most solid state bass amps have have better pre-amps for tone shaping. Most bass tube amps have fairly straight forward preamps. (I hope this statement doesn't occur me any wrath!)

Probably, the biggest advantage with tube amps is that when distortion is achieved, it's a good or excellent or usable sound of distortion. Whereas solid state distortion just doesn't sound very good.

Other than that, you/we already know of the cost, weight, power level............ plus and minus of each kind of amp.

My final word is that solid state amps are just that, solid. Tube amps are not. Drop one or the other and you know why.

 

[JimmyM]

Well, as if this subject has not been covered over the years here on TalkBass.

The bottom line is that tube amps are the best for sound amplification. Whether bass, guitar or stereo, tubes are best.

But the "but". Today's solid state amps are fantastic and IMHO might be within 97% as good as tubes. Also, most solid state bass amps have have better pre-amps for tone shaping. Most bass tube amps have fairly straight forward preamps. (I hope this statement doesn't occur me any wrath!)

Not wrath, but maybe a slightly stern talking-to Ever notice that most of your top world class preamps have tubes in them? It has not escaped my attention. Yes, there are some world class SS preamps. Still doesn't change the facts. And "straightforward" and having "simple controls" is not a bad thing, nor are more deluxe preamps exclusive to SS amps. A lot of bass amps with more tone controls than treble/mid/bass have tube preamps in them, even if their power amps are SS. I do agree, however, that SS has made some great strides in the last 10 years or so. They haven't matched tube amps for sound quality, but they are inching up to it for sure.

Probably, the biggest advantage with tube amps is that when distortion is achieved, it's a good or excellent or usable sound of distortion. Whereas solid state distortion just doesn't sound very good.

I've got some solid state dirt pedals that would disagree with you. However, I, too, think that cranking up a tube amp till the power tubes distort sounds a lot better, although it's often inconvenient for SVT users to do so. But there are plenty of lower power tube amps you can crank without getting your band fired, and not to be overlooked is the sound of a tube amp running clean...rich, powerful, and very alive-sounding.

Other than that, you/we already know of the cost, weight, power level............ plus and minus of each kind of amp.

My final word is that solid state amps are just that, solid. Tube amps are not. Drop one or the other and you know why.

I've dropped plenty of both in my day, and trust me, they can all break when you drop them, and tube vs SS has nothing to do with making one prone to breakage more than the other. Tubes ain't light bulbs. They're built pretty ruggedly.

I use both tube and SS and always will. Both have their place, and at the end of the day, it's the player that makes or breaks the gear, not the gear that makes or breaks the player. But despite that, I still consider myself very much a tube snob, with good reason!

 

[Munjibunga]

"Bloom."

 

[Mr. Foxen]

If your amp is all tube, you can boast about how your amp is all tube without someone pointing out that it isn't all tube, forcing you to declare being all tube doesn't actually matter, even though you were boasting about how your amp is all tube.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

All the important stuff for the 'tubey' sound comes from a valve power section. SS is way handier for preamp functions, valve preamps are fairly limiting.

 

[JimmyM]

All the important stuff for the 'tubey' sound comes from a valve power section. SS is way handier for preamp functions, valve preamps are fairly limiting.

Considering that I've seen plenty of hybrid amps with pretty deluxe EQing functions, I'd have to disagree.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

Considering that I've seen plenty of hybrid amps with pretty deluxe EQing functions, I'd have to disagree.

I dunno how that is disagreeing.

 

[seamonkey]

modern solid-state design?

Today SS dives into algorithms. Using algo's one can achieve the exact same waveform that came out of anything in the past. If it's the same waveform, it's the same sound.

Back when bass amps were a new thing, it was a new sound to have an electric bass. Many new sounds as each amp was different, Many of the amps have now been archived in modelers. SS, Tube, Hybrids are all in modeling. They are there to try out by anyone.

The algo's also allow many hitting new sounds not heard before. I expect there will be a few new sounds that catch on and over the years become classics in themselves.

 

[Hambone 70]

Today SS dives into algorithms. Using algo's one can achieve the exact same waveform that came out of anything in the past. If it's the same waveform, it's the same sound.

So it boils down to the "intangible old-school feeling knowing that there's not an integrated circuit in sight, that all sound is flowing through living, breathing, glowing tubes" then?

 

[seamonkey]

So it boils down to the "intangible old-school feeling knowing that there's not an integrated circuit in sight, that all sound is flowing through living, breathing, glowing tubes" then?

I would say that most double blind testing hasn't show that humans can tell a difference from a well executed algo. When somebody see's the amp then it's a different story. Put a couple of amps behind a curtain and try it.

Down at the electron level the space between atoms is a void with nothing in it. Electrons don't care if they're in SS or Vacuum. They adhere to the same laws of physics in either case.

 

[El Apestoso]

Until NASA perfects and releases to the public their vacuum channel transistors, the only amps that will work after a nuclear attack are tube amps. Just something to keep in mind.