All-tube amp advantages?

[Johnny Crab]

Until NASA perfects and releases to the public their vacuum channel transistors, the only amps that will work after a nuclear attack are tube amps. Just something to keep in mind.

Aren't those plans in the wikileaks Vault 7 release Part 2? /SARC

Used and maintained an SVT for about a decade(70's-80's) with two 8x10 cabs.
@Hambone_70 : when done right AND voltage levels are right AND power feed to the amp is good AND tubes are working right AND bias levels are stable/set right AND you feed it into the correct impedance, tube amps can sound better.

 

[JimmyM]

So it boils down to the "intangible old-school feeling knowing that there's not an integrated circuit in sight, that all sound is flowing through living, breathing, glowing tubes" then?

It ain't intangible. If it was, then I would use nothing but solid state. It's VERY tangible.

 

[JimmyM]

Aren't those plans in the wikileaks Vault 7 release Part 2? /SARC

Used and maintained an SVT for about a decade(70's-80's) with two 8x10 cabs.
@Hambone_70 : when done right AND voltage levels are right AND power feed to the amp is good AND tubes are working right AND bias levels are stable/set right AND you feed it into the correct impedance, tube amps can sound better.

You make it sound like rocket science!

 

[Badwater]

IME all tube amps are ones with power, preamp, and rectifer tubes. And they produce some great warm tone. Some call it smooth tone. With guitar tube amps like the 5e3, the rectifier tubes give it "Sag" for added sustian. The powertubes give a dynamic sound based on the attack. This is from the output of the pickups, with the guitar volume knob is turned down there is less overdrive. When volume on the guitar is turned up, you can use attack to get overdrive. For example, the harder your attack, the more overdrive, the lighter the attack less OD.

Some all tube amps were favored for recording: like the Princeton Reverb, Tweed Deluxe, and Ampeg B15, and the Marshall 18w blues breaker. These were all low power tube amps that players would crank up to get overdrive in their playing. And they sound best on high resolution recordings using high resolution analog equipment.

But with all good things, there are also problems with all tube amps. Maintenance, in the form of costly tube replacement. They need warm up time, and they get hot and use a lot of electricity. And they need to cool down before you move them around. They can have issues with noise, hum, and microphonics if ground issues exist. And they are much more fragile than solidstate. Nevertheless, a lot of tube amps' problems can be reduced in a studio environment vs taking it out on tour and various gig locations.

So that's my experience with all tube amps. For bass guitar, I prefer the solid state in many ways over all tube amps. Mainly for the cost, durability, good consistent sound quality, and no maintenance.

 

[JimmyM]

Tube replacement is only costly if you're one of those people who replaces every tube at regular intervals or when only one goes bad. And noise and ground issues can happen with any amp, and having no tubes is no guarantee that you won't by any means. As for maintenance, yeah, tubes do require you to open it up and pull a tube now and then, but I've had as many SS and hybrid amps in the shop as tube amps.

 

[Johnny Crab]

You make it sound like rocket science!

Sorry JimmyM!
Just dragged that SVT around too many places in south Louisiana and Mississippi that had crap power. The one I had started what I call "playing itself" at about 10 o'clock on the volume(no master volume, no power conditioners). That is where you could barely play the note and it would jump out at you and if you played HARD a glorious sound was heard. 1964 Gibson Thunderbird with Rotosounds.

Closest I've come to that sound is a few lucky times with Line 6 run thru a tube pre and once with a provided backline(SansAmp pedal>GK 900? >beat to heck SVT cab).

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Heavy, more delicate, *often* less reliable, occasional expense (re-tubing), no decernable benefit from all the extra weight / cost.

Now, for *guitar*, tubes are an absolute *must*. But for bass? Nope.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

A lot of these maintenance and reliability issues thrown around here concerning tube amps are way overblown (for the record, as anecdotal as it is, my two most reliable amps are all-tube designs). But it is true that tube amps don't deal with crap power as well as solid state does. It's not a big deal if you usually run with pro production companies that will have good power distribution. It can suck if you are plugging directly into the wall at some hole in the wall that has not updated its wiring in 65 years.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Until NASA perfects and releases to the public their vacuum channel transistors, the only amps that will work after a nuclear attack are tube amps. Just something to keep in mind.

Well, I might well be willing to call it a night should we get nuked... I mean, at least take a break to hook up a backup head... EMP only hoses up active circuits - at least that's what I was taught in the AF.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

Well, I might well be willing to call it a night should we get nuked... I mean, at least take a break to hook up a backup head... EMP only hoses up active circuits - at least that's what I was taught in the AF.

I was born in 1982, so I missed most of the cold war. Was the operational status of guitar amps ever a factor in any M.A.D. game theories? Did either Russian or the U.S. ever consider the destructive power of Ritchie Blackmore's wall of Marshalls if left intact from a nuclear strike?

 

[static0verdrive]

I don't think reliability is an issue either. Subtle tube compression, warmth, harmonics, and added mild overdrive that sounds killer. Those are my main points. The magical tube tone goodness is made up of some combination of those IMO.

 

[mancefine]

I have an Orange Terror Bass 1000 (class D solid state) and an Orange AD 200b (all tube). Both have the exact same tube driven preamp, and both have the exact same simple controls; volume, bass, treble, mids, and gain. While both are great sounding amps, I never have a bad tone with any bass running through the AD200. IMO, solid state can't reproduce that warmth and roundness that you get from a tube amp. That's not to say that the terror isn't warm and round, it just doesn't have the balls and girth like the AD200. To me, that difference in tone IS worth the extra grand and lugging around an amp that's 90 pounds heavier and likelier to break. Once you hear that tone it's very hard to not always be thinking about it when you plug another amp in. I have noticed that having higher wattage with class D solid state is nice because you can get very close to the head room you are afforded with tube amps. As others have said, solid state is so much closer to tube in tone than even 10 years ago. I remember having an SVT Classic and then it breaking and having to use an Ampeg SVT 3 pro and almost throwing up at how much good tone I lost. At least today they are close, and there are many benefits to having a solid state head.

 

[I am Soma]

tube, solid state, and hybrid amps rule. I have a 100t and a darkglass 900 and I cant say enough good things about either. I gig with both depending upon how im feeling and on our last recording I recorded with both.

ive owned lots of amps and you can end up with issues in all of them.

if I had to list an advantage I would say its pretty hard to get a bad tone out of a tube amp like my 100t...with the darkglass I had to play around to get what I was looking for.

oh and the smell of tubes is freaking awesome.

 

[Passinwind]

OK. Apart from increased cost, weight and maintenance, and lower reliability, what are the actual tangible benefits of all-tube bass amp design that cannot be accurately reproduced in modern solid-state design?

You win the Musician's Fashion Show Award every time you play a toob amp. That much is clearly tangible and pretty much all the rest is subjective. HTH...

 

[lawjazz1]

You mentioned you have a class D for a back up. I have a Carvin BX1500 that I paired with an Ampeg PF50 as a preamp. Sweet! Tube sound with SS power. So, if you already have the class D, might be less expensive to look at the PF50. And it only weighs 20 pounds.

 

[Chris 'Wighat' Jordan]

Today SS dives into algorithms. Using algo's one can achieve the exact same waveform that came out of anything in the past. If it's the same waveform, it's the same sound.

Oh, no you didant! I get the waveform point but there is much more going on with a pushed tube amp than just the wave form. The blooming/breathing thing, sag, touch sensitivity, etc.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I was born in 1982, so I missed most of the cold war. Was the operational status of guitar amps ever a factor in any M.A.D. game theories? Did either Russian or the U.S. ever consider the destructive power of Ritchie Blackmore's wall of Marshalls if left intact from a nuclear strike?

Well, since any propoer guitar player will be running a tube amp, they were safe, so we never including them in strategic planning. Bass players, on the other hand... And don't get me started about key players - those guys were *screwed*!

 

[NoiseNinja]

It usually will play louder than a similar rated solid state.

You can push it incredible hard and it will still sound awesome.

It has a different tone than solid states.

Weather you prefer that sound or not is mostly a matter of taste though.

Facts are you can't get exactly the same sound anyway else.

I don't know about the lower reliability issue you mention though.

I owned a B-15S tube amp produced in 1969 and I never had any problems with it, beside the usual new power tubes change once in a while.

I even pushed the crap out of it, for several hours, several times a week, for several years, while I was playing in the hardcore/math/noise rock band Menfolk, still didn't fail me once.

I would say that most double blind testing hasn't show that humans can tell a difference from a well executed algo. When somebody see's the amp then it's a different story. Put a couple of amps behind a curtain and try it.

Down at the electron level the space between atoms is a void with nothing in it. Electrons don't care if they're in SS or Vacuum. They adhere to the same laws of physics in either case.

I agree as much as a good emulation can get close, but I would still claim it's hard to get them to act and sound exactly like tube amps.

Can you provide a link to your source?

And did the people in this test happened to be highly trained musicians used to playing through tube amps?

 

[JimmyM]

You win the Musician's Fashion Show Award every time you play a toob amp. That much is clearly tangible and pretty much all the rest is subjective. HTH...

Heh, like that's not important!

 

[baxter_x]

I have tried both the Amped SVT CL heritage and the SVT2 pro and I'm a long time owner of the SVT 4. I had fun comparing them to see that Ss vs Tube amp thing. I can to the conclusion that all of these amps sounded pretty much the same for clean tone. The CL was like producing some harmonics while playing, a bit better than the 4 pro. To me a tube amp is mandatory if you want dirt. But for clean sound it was pretty much the same to my ears. I could also notice that a tube amp can't sound hi-fi is a complete myth!