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Allen Heath Mono or Stereo question

FuzzBoxVoodoo

FuzzBoxVoodoo

Nov 28, 2008
1,345
11
Sacramento CA
#1
Hey All,
I have a Allen Heath Mix Wizard 16:2DX and I am currently running the Left and Right output to a EQ what I want to do is free up one side of my EQ to deal with monitor feedback issues,we don't run any stereo inputs anyway.
Would I just use either the left or Right channel output on the board or would it damage the board to put a Y cable on both outputs and then run that to one side of the EQ.
I am also using a BBE DS24 Speaker management system and I have it hooked up to the board on insert cables at the boards Land R outputs. so for that reason would really like to use the Y cable approach if it's safe for the board.
Steve
 
#2
In my opinion, a Y cable is not needed. It would not damage the board, but if you are going to run mono mains (like most people do), you can just use the left (or right) output into 1 channel of your EQ.
Now another question - are you using subwoofers on your mains with a separate amp? If so, I recommend using that mixer in an "aux-fed subs" configuration. I use my Allen Heath with L channel for subs and R channel for highs, and it's much cleaner.

More info:
Aux Fed Subs
 
#3
The L and R channels first go through the EQ then out to the BBE DS24 which has the crossover to feed my passive mains (Mackie 1400I) and the seperate Sub output on the DS24 feeds my passive sub (Carvin DCM200L) on channel 2 and I use channel 1 of the Carvin for my Monitor.
 
#4
there's already a mono out ("A-B out") on the back; use that.

Y-cables to sum outputs are not a good idea; the outputs try to "drive" each other, wearing out components.

if you're not running the system in stereo, then a good use for the L-R is to pan all vocals hard to one side, all instruments hard to the other side, and insert your vocal compressor on that side's main insert.

that way, all the vocals get the smoothing they should get, while none of the monitor sends get compressed like they would if you inserted compressors right into vocal channels.

(compressing monitors is A Bad Idea, you get feedback and blown-out voices.)
 
#5
FuzzBoxVoodoo said:
The L and R channels first go through the EQ then out to the BBE DS24 which has the crossover to feed my passive mains (Mackie 1400I) and the seperate Sub output on the DS24 feeds my passive sub (Carvin DCM200L) on channel 2 and I use channel 1 of the Carvin for my Monitor.
Click to expand...

Use the A/H's left output to feed the BBE, then use the BBE's left (mono) output to feed the mains and mono sum to feed the subwoofers. Well, it works that way with my DriveRack. Make sure your mains' amp is configured for parallel mono (channel A's input is shared with channel B) or bridged mono...depends on your amp and enclosures. If available, add a single EQ channel on the mixer's left insert. Going mono frees up processing channels for other applications.

Riis
 
#6
Great info I will look into that please keep it coming,with this running the sound and playing at the same I need all of the tips I can get.
I am uploading vids to Youtube right now of lastnights show and I finally get the sound pretty good out of the mains and then they ask us to turn down which puts me right back to the stage sounds affecting the house sound,with the small venus we play it is a constant fine line.
One of my guitarist uses IEM which has completely eliminated that problem with him but he is totally disconnected with the band to the point that it is affecting the stage dynamics.
Sorry for the side track this has been an issue that I am finally recognizing and addressing to better our sound.
 
#7
I have not been able to find a way to set the sub woofer to mono on the DS24 which is why I was thinking that the Y cable was a good idea (not now).
I need to read more into the DS24 and see if I can get the low pass set to mono.
I could also just send a left or right to the DS24 instead of sending stereo to it and reconfiqure the outputs for mono high pass and mono sub.
We are also thinking about getting a dbx AFS 224 Feedback suppressor for the monitors or just using the channel that I will be freeing up on the EQ.
Zooberwerx said:
Use the A/H's left output to feed the BBE, then use the BBE's left (mono) output to feed the mains and mono sum to feed the subwoofers. Well, it works that way with my DriveRack. Make sure your mains' amp is configured for parallel mono (channel A's input is shared with channel B) or bridged mono...depends on your amp and enclosures. If available, add a single EQ channel on the mixer's left insert. Going mono frees up processing channels for other applications.

Riis
Click to expand...
 
#8
FuzzBoxVoodoo said:
I have not been able to find a way to set the sub woofer to mono on the DS24 which is why I was thinking that the Y cable was a good idea (not now).
I need to read more into the DS24 and see if I can get the low pass set to mono.
I could also just send a left or right to the DS24 instead of sending stereo to it and reconfiqure the outputs for mono high pass and mono sub.
We are also thinking about getting a dbx AFS 224 Feedback suppressor for the monitors or just using the channel that I will be freeing up on the EQ.
Click to expand...

The DS24 block diagram (manual, bottom of page 16) shows a 2 X 2 mono sub configuration which may meet your needs. Even though the illustrations show input signals on channels A & B, you can "fool" the system utilizing a single input and single outputs for the mains and subs. It's mono so it doesn't really matter.

Walter pointed out the A/H mixer has an "A&B Mono" output which simplifies matters.

Riis
 
#10
FuzzBoxVoodoo said:
What are your thoughts on the dbx AFS 224 Feedback suppressor for the monitors?
Steve
Click to expand...

I had one for a while and it didn't blow me away. It works better in an insert where it's getting a good, hot signal than it does after the fader.

I've found that in all but the most nightmarish of situations a properly used 31 band EQ gets you plenty of monitor without feedback.
 
#11
Thanks for the info,After I free up one side I am going to try the 15 band EQ that I currently have and see how that works out.
Steve
projectMalamute said:
I had one for a while and it didn't blow me away. It works better in an insert where it's getting a good, hot signal than it does after the fader.

I've found that in all but the most nightmarish of situations a properly used 31 band EQ gets you plenty of monitor without feedback.
Click to expand...
 
#12
MrDOS said:
In my opinion, a Y cable is not needed. It would not damage the board, but if you are going to run mono mains (like most people do), you can just use the left (or right) output into 1 channel of your EQ.
Now another question - are you using subwoofers on your mains with a separate amp? If so, I recommend using that mixer in an "aux-fed subs" configuration. I use my Allen Heath with L channel for subs and R channel for highs, and it's much cleaner.

More info:
Aux Fed Subs
Click to expand...

I agree, i have done this sort of thing in the past, much better. You can also pan out the instruments that don't belong in the subs like vocals and guitars.
 
#13
FuzzBoxVoodoo said:
Thanks for the info,After I free up one side I am going to try the 15 band EQ that I currently have and see how that works out.
Steve
Click to expand...

15 bands is kind of a blunt instrument for this. In order to kill a frequency that is feeding back you will end up pulling out a lot of stuff around it.

You can get a dbx 231 for cheap, you wouldn't want to master a record through it but they work fine for killing feedback in a monitor mix.
 
#14
We use dbx driverack 260s at the church I run sound for, but that probably overkill for your situation. I'd recommend a good parametric EQ like the Ashly PQX 571 over a 31 band EQ for eliminating feedback. With a parametric you can notch out much smaller frequency bands and thus have less of a negative effect on your overall tone.
 
#15
parametrics rock (i use the rane PE-17 myself) but it's a steeper learning curve, with no visual "shape" to rely on when tweaking.

i'd suspect it would be too much head-scratching for the OP in the middle of a gig.
 
#18
The 16:2 has a mono XLR out controlled by the mono master fader.

If BBE has ability to Eq each side independently just run one side for mono main. Run TRS-XLR from mon send into ch 2 of BBE. Run HF out to mon amp. You don't need anything below 100-120hz in mon anyway if just using mon for vocals. If amps don't have parallel mode manual should show you how to jump one side to the other to get mono signal to both channels of amp from a mono feed without using Y cables. If using powered speakers its even easier to just patch into one and back out to the other.
 
#19
I had a chance to pull the PA out of the trailer and I changed the outputs on the board to Left Mains and Right Subs then left the insert for the mains that runs to one channel of the 15 band EQ,from there I switched the amp for the mains to mono now that I only have one output for it.I will probably upgrade to a 31 band or a parametric EQ down the road.
I did notice when I was panning all of the vocal mics to the left (Mains) that there was a noticable output gain.
I also picked up a DBX AFS224 for the monitors and got it dialed in fairly well (hopefully).
When setting the gains on the mics I have that person sing loudly in the mic and then I set the input gain on that channel close to the red or peak input I think that this is the right way to start,from there I get a basic level set for all of the inputs on the board,then at that point I start dealing with whatever feedback has shown up which is almost allways in the monitors.
Another way that I have setup is to turn each mic on one at time and boost it until it feeds back and then adust positioning and or a little EQ on that channel which then affects the tone also.
Thanks for all of the input.
Steve
 

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