Alt positions?

[twinjet]

Studying up on a few new tunes in my Real Book. For example, Have You Met Miss Jone? is tonight's tune. I am practicing in fourth position starting on A on the D string.

This position feels most comfortable and allows me to move around less, but is this a good thing?

I've practiced the melody using different fingerings and positions, though some are seemingly inconvenient. Does it make sense to learn these anyway?

What is your take?

 

[Wasnex]

Studying up on a few new tunes in my Real Book. For example, Have You Met Miss Jone? is tonight's tune. I am practicing in fourth position starting on A on the D string.

This position feels most comfortable and allows me to move around less, but is this a good thing?

I've practiced the melody using different fingerings and positions, though some are seemingly inconvenient. Does it make sense to learn these anyway?

What is your take?

Less motion is generally good. Do you like the tone better? Is it more or less taxing to play in this position on your instrument?

I think learning more ways teaches you the instrument inside and out. How will you learn what is best if you don't try the wrong way? Maybe the wrong way works when you break a string in the middle of a tune. Then you become the stuff of legends by not missing a note.

 

[BassChuck]

Learning less efficient positions can have some benefit. You learn the neck a little better. When you're sight reading, you might just get yourself in a 'corner'; learning how to get out of that is a good thing. And in the case of playing jazz, you just might find an interesting alternate melody, chord, or line to get back to a more comfortable place. And lastly, always looking for the easiest of answers often will shield you from some things you wouldn't see otherwise (life and music).

 

[twinjet]

Learning less efficient positions can have some benefit. You learn the neck a little better. When you're sight reading, you might just get yourself in a 'corner'; learning how to get out of that is a good thing. And in the case of playing jazz, you just might find an interesting alternate melody, chord, or line to get back to a more comfortable place. And lastly, always looking for the easiest of answers often will shield you from some things you wouldn't see otherwise (life and music).

That is a good point. I did experiment with other, less technically efficient positions for the melody that would have opened up other good notes for improvised lines, sure as in soloing or walking.

 

[ba55i5t]

I'm fairly decent at walking changes in the first five frets so I've given myself the challenge of learning how to walk with the same tones beginning on the 5th fret of my b string going up to the 11th fret.

I like having vertical space over horizontal space, esp with Gary Willis' method of four plus one on each side.

 

[IamGroot]

Alt positions are where its at. I automatcally reach for a certain position based on whether its major or minor, etc, but learning to play up and down the neck is a good thing. I havent gone to the extreme of playing single stream but i should.
Btw, in my guitar-centric world, I would call the 7th fret the 7th podition.

 

[twinjet]

Alt positions are where its at. I automatcally reach for a certain position based on whether its major or minor, etc, but learning to play up and down the neck is a good thing. I havent gone to the extreme of playing single stream but i should.
Btw, in my guitar-centric world, I would call the 7th fret the 7th podition.

I see. When I mention position I mean first, second or fourth finger for fretting.

 

[IamGroot]

I see. When I mention position I mean first, second or fourth finger for fretting.

Oh, I see. ABSOLUTELY agree. Other bassists look at my alt fingering and say ***.
1 = minor, minor pentatonic
2 = major modes
4 = major pentatonic.

I play Ramblin Man in Ab uding 4 exclusively. Feel the burn with that one.

 

[twinjet]

Oh, I see. ABSOLUTELY agree. Other bassists look at my alt fingering and say ***.
1 = minor, minor pentatonic
2 = major modes
4 = major pentatonic.

I play Ramblin Man in Ab uding 4 exclusively. Feel the burn with that one.

In the double bass world, I believe positions do actually pertain to fingerboard positioning, which may be more in-line with your thinking.

 

[IamGroot]

I use Simandl fingering for upright but hate Simandl position terminology.

 

[Bob_Ross]

Do you like the tone better?

+1. Don't overlook ^^^this aspect of positional playing. Regardless of how easy/hard something is to play in any given position, regardless of how "biomechanically efficient" a particular fingering may be, as musicians it is our duty to recognize that notes sound different when played in different places on the bass neck and we should choose the fingering that sounds best, that best serves the music.

If it's a bit harder to play but sounds better, suck it up and get thee to the woodshed.

 

[Groove Master]

Studying up on a few new tunes in my Real Book. For example, Have You Met Miss Jone? is tonight's tune. I am practicing in fourth position starting on A on the D string.

This position feels most comfortable and allows me to move around less, but is this a good thing?

I've practiced the melody using different fingerings and positions, though some are seemingly inconvenient. Does it make sense to learn these anyway?

What is your take?

I guess you are reading it in the bass clef?

I much prefer to play and read the heads in treble clef and this brings me generally above the 12th fret one octave higher then written in the bass clef version. That way your melody stands out much more in the band.

On this one I tend to start on the 14th fret with the 1st finger.

 

[Leo Smith]

I use Simandl fingering for upright but hate Simandl position terminology.

The George Vance concept of positions makes more sense with names and visualisation.

 

[Leo Smith]

To the OP, do what you can to learn the whole fingerboard. Learn where all the notes are on all the strings. Practice those scales and melodies every where. Use just one string, or use one static box position. Then mix it up. Eventually, as BassChuck suggested, you'll be able to work you way or of corners and "dead ends".

 

[twinjet]

I guess you are reading it in the bass clef?

I much prefer to play and read the heads in treble clef and this brings me generally above the 12th fret one octave higher then written in the bass clef version. That way your melody stands out much more in the band.

On this one I tend to start on the 14th fret with the 1st finger.

I read it in bass clef to stay up to speed, but I typically play the melodies an octave up.

 

[IamGroot]

I like having vertical space over horizontal space, esp with Gary Willis' method of four plus one on each side.

Sounds interesting. Would you please elaborate.

 

[IamGroot]

The George Vance concept of positions makes more sense with names and visualisation.

What bugged me about Simandl was calling something a half position. I am sure there was a perfectly logical reason for doing that, but I hate it just the same.

In my mind, the octave on any string contains 12 positions. So A on the E string is the fifth position and would be written V. Grew up playing classical guitar and the position would be notated if there was a preferred choice.

Btw, a simple position notation makes tab completely unnecessary.

To upright players credit, thinking in terms of neck position rather than fingers on the fingerboard is a big advantage when playing up the neck.

 

[Mushroo]

To play devil's advocate: Bass is an octave-transposing instrument. A lot of players don't know this and play in the "wrong" octave without realizing. For example, some bassists think "middle C" on the piano is the same pitch as our G string, 5th fret. But it's not; middle C is actually the same pitch as our G string, 17th fret. The reason I bring this up is, when we are playing music originally written for other instruments (like reading tunes from a treble-clef Real Book) we should feel absolutely free to transpose the music to whatever octave sounds good and fits the range of the bass.

 

[ba55i5t]

Sounds interesting. Would you please elaborate.

Sure. Vertical space is having more strings to work with but less fret room going up, horizontal space is the opposite (think Ab 16 fret on E string vs Ab 1st fret G string).

Gary Willis advocates having a one finger per fret approach and the ability to cover (shift) the index and pinky to cover notes on either side. Either your index, middle, or pinky finger will be on the root (iirc).

If you want to do an elementary application of this, notice how putting your fingers on 1234 will cover the open strings and also be able to shift up to 5th fret with pinky. The same can be had by putting fingers 78910, index can cover 6 and pinky 11. By doing this you are effectively splitting the first octave of the bass in half (frets 0-12) and simplifying your position depending on what key you're working in.

Since getting a 5er I'm preferring to use frets 5-11 over the first position since it is physically easier, and it's giving my brain a new challenge to internalize all the notes.