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Double Bass Alternative to Flexocor Deluxe?

I absolutely wanted to love the Bel Cantos. It took a while for them to come out with solo strings so I couldn't give them a go in 5ths. I had a low H tuned to a C on for a while underneath the now discontinued Velvet Compas 180's Vths strings. I loved it straight out of the package but after just a few weeks on the instrument, it lost that new string edge and I couldn't hear pitch on it to save my life. If money was no object I would just keep buying them and replacing them every few weeks, but since I don't live in a world where that's possible I have two Spiros on the bottom I'm pretty happy with. I thought about putting two Bel Cantos on top for orchestra stuff but I still do a few crossover gigs here and there and they really do not have the pizz sound I am going for.

The Flex Deluxe over Spirocores has been great on my bass, so I'm sticking with that for a while.
 
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The Flex Deluxe over Spirocores has been great on my bass, so I'm sticking with that for a while.

Like everybody else, I've been caught up in all these new string designs for the last so many years because they all did something to make my bass sound subjectively older, more burnished, more "pretty" or just ... "better". But before that, I only played Spirocores and Superflexibles (back when there were far less choices).

I had tried the FD/Spiro string mix for a minute and didn't like it, but I might revisit this combo - because of what I described above, I may not have given myself enough time to adjust back to Spirocores after being away for so long. Also, for a few weeks before I installed the BCs, I was enjoying used Zyex light on top + 8-10 year old Spiros on the bottom. And while the Zyex are still a question mark for me, the Spirocores made me happy.

I had forgotten that I bowed Spirocore bottom + Superflexible top for years in an orchestral setting (bolstering college orchestras in the New England area where I lived in at the time).

All to say, I will giving your mix another chance at some point.
 
No pressure, just saying what works for me. There are a lot of different strings and combinations out there that work really well for different basses and bassists, some of which I am curious about trying and some of which just really don't suit my sound at the moment. I also believe it takes a lot longer than we think it does to truly adjust to a new set of strings, and what that means for our playing and our instrument. While the difference in timbre can seem like a pretty immediate change, how to get different colours out of the instrument, just how much you can dig in with the bow and/or pizz, the different feel under the left hand, etc. all take a while before they really feel absolutely like home again.

The Flex Deluxe over Spirocore Mittels have been on my bass for several months, and I'm just really starting to feel at home on them. I have enjoyed them a lot, but every once in a while they still surprise me a bit. While I wouldn't advocate living with something that just isn't going to work for you or playing a set of strings that absolutely feels/sounds wrong to you, finding something that's pretty close to what you are looking for and then really spending some time getting to know them can sometimes be the best answer.
 
No pressure, just saying what works for me. There are a lot of different strings and combinations out there that work really well for different basses and bassists, some of which I am curious about trying and some of which just really don't suit my sound at the moment. I also believe it takes a lot longer than we think it does to truly adjust to a new set of strings, and what that means for our playing and our instrument. While the difference in timbre can seem like a pretty immediate change, how to get different colours out of the instrument, just how much you can dig in with the bow and/or pizz, the different feel under the left hand, etc. all take a while before they really feel absolutely like home again.

The Flex Deluxe over Spirocore Mittels have been on my bass for several months, and I'm just really starting to feel at home on them. I have enjoyed them a lot, but every once in a while they still surprise me a bit. While I wouldn't advocate living with something that just isn't going to work for you or playing a set of strings that absolutely feels/sounds wrong to you, finding something that's pretty close to what you are looking for and then really spending some time getting to know them can sometimes be the best answer.
What kind(s) of music are you playing with this setup? And I think you mentioned 5ths ...
 
The majority of what I have been doing has been classical section work. That was a big part of why I switched from the Permanents on top to the Flex Deluxe, as the Permanents tended to be brighter than what most of the other players I was playing with were using and if you are a hired sub in an orchestra, you don't want to turn too many heads. I really liked the Permanents for solo playing, and they are a really great crossover string with a lot of similarities to Spiros. I wanted something just a tad darker that was still on the brighter side and worked well in different genres, so I went with the Flex Deluxe on top. I was happy with Spiros on the bottom, but decided to switch from Weich to Mittel, and have been very happy with that move.

I wanted a crossover string, because I still do a few other things here and there. My Afro-Latin Polka project involved double bass and I wanted something that had some brightness and that carried well, as we would often play unamplified parties with double bass, accordion, sax, and cajon, and you have to be loud to be heard against those instruments. I have also done a few musicals and am looking to get back into that kind of work, just played an outdoor Pops concert this weekend, and occasionally embarrass myself by trying to play some jazz. With all of that said, I have been doing about a 90% orchestral section 10% everything else mix which might start to lean a little more in a 75/25 direction in the next little while, but this is predominantly a somewhat bright sounding orchestral setup for me.

I am also in 5ths. In practical terms that means that I am using a solo A which has a bit more tension than the orchestral G, and is a little bit brighter by nature. The D is an orchestral D and exactly the same. The Mittel low G in 5ths is right in the middle of the Weich and Mittel 4ths tuned low A for tension, and the Mittel low C is the same as a Weich low E or H in 4ths. From a feel under both the left and right hand perspective, it feels like a slightly tighter top string, the Flex Deluxe D you are used to, and Spiro Weichs on the bottom because the Mittel 5ths set is still relatively low tension.

You have to be a little careful with the high A in 5ths as it can stand out against the rest of a section, especially if you are using a slightly brighter string and the rest of the section is skewed towards darker strings. You learn how and when to use it, and it really isn't a problem. The middle two strings are pretty much the same as they would be in 4ths, where the bottom string is much more comparable to the bottom string of a 5 string than it is to a low E. Having a bit more tension and the brightness of the Spiro helps it respond/speak quicker, and makes it easier to distinguish intonation down there. Dark timbre bottom strings sound muddy to my ears, and trying to get a low Eb in tune when you can feel it more than you can hear it is not an easy thing to do. One Spiro on the bottom and three of whatever else you prefer on top tends to be a more common mix in 4ths than a two and two mix, but that really comes down to your own preference and what your bass needs. I know a guy that uses the Flexocor (92's? The maroon/burgundy silk ones) the whole way across in 5ths and they work great for what he is looking for. Talkbass has been extremely helpful to me in a lot of ways and a few discussions here was what lead to me trying the Flex Deluxe, but I've also discovered that stepping away from the computer and practicing makes me sound a whole lot better than discussing rosin all day does.
 
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed answer. You're into a whole other ball of wax (I had to read that twice in order to get it).

As to the string mix, I have found that on my bass, a 2 + 2 mix always yields a more balanced sound than merely swapping out the E string - regardless of what strings I'm using in the mix. And having the 2 upper strings be of lower tension than the bottom 2 yields better results in terms of playability. For instance, the Bel Canto D/G + Flex Deluxe A/E is a more playable combination than a full set of FDs. And they sound like a set (maybe because of the similar construction).

I hope you get a chance to try the Flex Deluxe bottom strings at some point. Using them in an orchestral context is a no brainer, but I think the set is also a legitimate crossover string. Back in the day, rope core Superflexibles were (and still are, I guess) a good alternative to Spirocores (or used in conjunction with them). I look at Flex Deluxes (Bel Cantos, too) as a further refinement of the rope core design.

I guess I'm a rope core guy.
 
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It really is interesting to see what does and doesn't work on certain basses. I am seeing 2+2 and would likely say that is the most common mix when someone uses a mixed set. I used to see a lot of 3 of just about anything over 1 Spirocore, but there is a very good chance that was because that particular bass scene was heavily influenced by a few teachers who preached that gospel. Although it has been roughly 8 years since I was in 4ths, I did settle on Permanents the whole way across for a while before I made the switch, and it worked quite well for me. The advantage of a full set is you usually have the best chance of both feel and sound consistency from top to bottom. Even with strings that work well together you inevitably find a bit of a difference between one and the other, and that can mean slightly altering your attack or weight when making a string crossing to achieve the best results. In passages that involve repeated string crossings that problem can be more pronounced, but the reality is that you usually have to approach your G string a little different than your A string regardless to what company they are made by and what tuning system you are using.

The big advantage of a mixed set is that it can really help us achieve what we want out of an instrument. I like the Spirocores on the bottom because they are a bit brighter and clearer sounding which helps to give definition to a low C string, which is not an easy thing to achieve. On the top of my instrument, the high strings have way too much ZING for my personal taste, so something a little tamer works for me. Plenty of people are in a similar boat where they want a little brighter bottom end which is why we see a ton of bottom string Spirocores out there, but others really like the deep dark "pipe organ" tone they get out of a darker string on the bottom. It also really depends on what you do with the instrument and what kind of a sound you are looking for. Some people love fast decaying pizz, some love sustain. Some love that dark, chocolatey, organ pedal sound, others call that mud. There are some fantastic strings out there that work for a lot of people I do not use because they don't give me what I'm looking for. It can be difficult for some of us to really understand that concept though, that if I objectively dislike something, that does not mean it is bad, or not the right option for someone else.

I would like to try a few other strings on the bottom other than Spirocores. The final frontier for a lot of 5ths players is low G strings. Other than Spirocore, Obligatos, and a few custom string manufacturers who will make anything, there really aren't low G strings on the market. Many 5ths players use a Solo F# string tuned up, but considering the Solo F# tends to already have a fairly high tension because it is a solo string, tuning it up a semitone often chokes the instrument and really does not work. On some instruments that isn't an issue, on others, it borders on unplayable. Solo A's are occasionally similar where some instruments do not like the tension, but considering you are using a string designed to be your top string tuned to the pitch it is designed to be tuned at, that is a less common issue. There are quite a few low C/H strings on the market that work really well, and orchestral D's are not an issue, so it's just low G's that would really be a game changer for a lot of us. While 5ths is becoming more popular it is still a very small part of the market, and considering the Obligato set was very poorly received until Pirastro reworked it several times, I unfortunately do not see many string companies putting the resources into developing low G's in the near future. If enough of us got together, generated enough interest in one particular string such as the Flex Deluxe for example and said "if you make 25 prototypes we will buy all of them and give you constructive feedback on them" they might do it, but getting 25 5ths players together, let alone getting them all to agree on one particular string to prototype would be no small task.
 
You've got me thinking in 5ths for maybe the first time in my life!

This is a never-ending quest, but it's still fascinating. Wish it wasn't so expensive. But I think you're right here:

finding something that's pretty close to what you are looking for and then really spending some time getting to know them can sometimes be the best answer

I have a feeling most of us don't wait around long enough for a string to work out its newness and reach its full potential. I know I've been guilty of that. But the Flex Deluxe set is the one that is "pretty close". These take me most of the way, so if anything, they are something to just tweak - until the next "new thing" comes around!
 
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Right now I am very happy with D'Addario Kaplan Mediums on my newer carved Korean shop bass. I would say my bass is on the brighter side. I use it for arco and pizz. I previously tried Evah Pirazzi Orchestra and Spirocore Mittel. The EPs had a nice pizz/arco sound up to neck position, though maybe a bit too dark/mellow overall. The Spiros pizz sustained too long for me (I prefer a quicker decay) and were too bright arco (though if I were a soloist with an orchestra they'd probably be what I want).

Edit: I totally forgot to mention my experience with Flexocore Deluxe. I liked their sound arco but not pizz, which was dead. I also found them very stiff especially under the right hand pizz, though I may have been playing them harder to compensate for their lack of pizz volume.
 
Edit: I totally forgot to mention my experience with Flexocore Deluxe. I liked their sound arco but not pizz, which was dead. I also found them very stiff especially under the right hand pizz, though I may have been playing them harder to compensate for their lack of pizz volume.
I think I was also overplaying them pizz as well, although I got good tone from them (actually, pretty similar to EPs, just not as fat). The volume issue (pizz.) is what got me to go back to EP weich. Much louder.

However, the terrific arco of the FDs continue to linger in my head (the EPs just don't sing like FDs with the bow, particularly, as you pointed out, in the upper half of the fingerboard, where EPs can get weird). I put the FD G back on with the EP set, but I think that's about as much as I can get away with.

Someone else on talkbass recently summed up the difference between EP and FD quite well, I think: (paraphrasing) FDs are slightly louder (and nicer) arco, while EPs are slightly louder (and nicer) pizz. The best qualities of both of these strings are equally intoxicating to me.

The solution? Two basses. I'm going to have to work on that, but until then, there will always be tradeoffs.
 
Similar situation to OP, but more arco based... I enjoy the tone and don't mind the left or right hand feel of the FDs, but I feel like it is just past the tension my bass seems to like-- it 'feels' (sounds/responds) slightly choked and tight, but I think the FDs are considerably more consistent with tone and feel than most everything else I've had on the bass.

Bass is an 08 Wan-Bernadel scored from a pawn shop and then repaired and set up down in Berkley, CA with Pat McCarthy. I'm a college student, mostly section and solo recital work with just the occasional pizz gig. I had a short little stint of string hunting over the past few months..

Tried Evah Weich (and mittel), but thought they were just a little too 'cloudy' and unfocused sounding in thumb on D and A... Gave Kaplan heavy gauge a shot because a handful of reviews floating around said they seemed to be more consistent across strings than the mediums. Tension felt spot on for what I was looking for and bass seemed to respond pretty well, but at first the A string stood out as unfocused, and then the D and G strings felt like they didn't blend as much as I'd hoped... I tried to goose as much out of it with technique and articulation adjustments, but couldn't seem to mask the wider sounding D to the more focused G string... The bass came with a set of Bel Cantos and I used them on a previous instrument.. felt they were too polite (as stated earlier) and didn't have much life/character (or rather, not much outside of that thick tasty chocolate they had in spades)

So put the FDs back on the other night and do feel they are more consistent still, but can't shake the feeling they are just a touch too tight. Is this just the trade off for focus and clarity?

Curious if a set up could help... last time the bass was in to Pat's I was using a very soft, low tension string (Velvet Compas 180s)..

So like the OP said... what next after FDs? Soundpost adjustment perhaps instead of a string change? I'm unsure. (hopefully not seen as a thread highjacking ha!)
 
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Similar situation to OP, but more arco based... I enjoy the tone and don't mind the left or right hand feel of the FDs, but I feel like it is just past the tension my bass seems to like-- it 'feels' (sounds/responds) slightly choked and tight, but I think the FDs are considerably more consistent with tone and feel than most everything else I've had on the bass.

So put the FDs back on the other night and do feel they are more consistent still, but can't shake the feeling they are just a touch too tight. Is this just the trade off for focus and clarity?

Just can't get it all from one string design. I guess you just go with what the string that gives you what's most important to you and then adjust.

i still think the answer involves 2 basses
 
Tried Evah Weich (and mittel), but thought they were just a little too 'cloudy' and unfocused sounding in thumb on D and A

If you liked the Evah E&A for arco well enough, you could try Evah E/A and Flex Deluxe G/D. I did that for awhile, because, like yourself, I missed the FD's focused arco tone, especially in thumb position. Even though they are different designs, there is some similarity in tone.

On the other hand- I now remember that I started with just the FD G, but then the FD D, until I just ended up with the FD set back on.

Great arco string and legitimate hybrid string. If only they were a tad looser.
 
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