Double Bass Alternatives to ebony, for fingerboards

[gaelmckeon]

Hi everybody. I've been involved in another thread, with some people with great experience and thoughts, on alternative materials to ebony. Ebony is in peril, and is by no means the only functional board material, though it is a very good one.

Has anybody experimented with different woods? Suggestions on the other thread ranged from hickory and black locust to hard Europian maple, to diamondwood, and perssimon (sp?).

Any thoughts?Any trials? My own bass has hickory with carbon inserts, and I'm happy with it...

 

[powerbass]

there's also carbon fiber. the problem I see with Dymondwood and carbon fiber is they are not easily reshaped or worked with planes, files etc, the dust is also noxious. there are other very dense rainforest/exotic woods like bloodwood, bubinga, purpleheart etc.

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

I tried Mesquite, which is quite hard. Unfortunately, it lacked adequate stiffness. I think Ipe could work, if one could find pieces big enough without twisty grain. It's heavy, dense, and hard; not sure about stiffness.

 

[powerbass]

Here is a wood density chart. North American woods cannot match ebony, bubinga etc

 

[RSBBass]

North American hard maple is usually harder than European. There is plantation grown ebony available.

 

[tornadobass]

My BugBass has a bubinga fingerboard that has been durable for a decade or so. Looking at the chart, I can see why.

 

[gaelmckeon]

There are many tropical varieties that will do the job, indeed. And perhaps there's a way to source ebony from sustainable harvesters, but I don't know how. I'd like to figure out a reasonable indigenous substitute, that my customers will actually use. There's little doubt that ebony has excellent properties.
It's difficult for me to suggest alternatives to customers without pushing them away. Someone who wants ebony doesn't want to be told that it's endangered. I work on ebony every day for money. It's a real problem. Eventually, the cost will be prohibitive, and alternatives will become attractive.
My feeling is that an alternative can provide a damn good sound, even if it isn't ideal. And with carbon reinforcement, or pressure treatment, or laminations.. a less rigid wood can produce a comparable resistance to ebony..bamboo?

 

[gaelmckeon]

Arnold,

Would all mesquite lack stiffness? Does it have a curly grain? Do you think carbon could make up for it? From the chart, it looks like its hard enough to resist most string wear..

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

I had bought two pieces, neither was curly, but the grain wanders as it's a small-ish tree. In my hands it felt quite hard on the surface but flimsy as far as resistance to bending. We tend not to think about the source of our materials, then we see programs on poachers killing each other in Madagascar over exotic, illegally obtained timber. Makes one squeamish...

I'm looking into Ipe, will report back eventually.

 

[tstone]

I wonder if Eucalyptus (gum) would be a possibility? It rates around 2,000 on the Janka hardness scale. Grain is very straight. God knows there's enough of it available in the S.F. Bay Area.

 

[powerbass]

If there is a move away from ebony and other exotic woods to softer domestic woods then the trade off could be a maintenance issue. With the softer woods a fingerboard dressing may be necessary every 6 months to a year depending on the intensity of playing. This is not such a bad compromise. There are many ways of obtaining FB wood. I routinely check Craigslist and find incredible deals on various kinds of wood. Ipe is used for upscale outdoor decks and is available at many lumber yards.

 

[gaelmckeon]

Eucalyptus sounds very intriguing..

 

[Thumpie]

With the softer woods a fingerboard dressing may be necessary every 6 months to a year depending on the intensity of playing. This is not such a bad compromise.

I'm not sure this is a solution that could ever be realistic. Ebony would have to become extreme expensive to cost more than the labor involved in an annual/bi-annual redressing.

Also, scheduling such maintenance would be extremely onerous for most players. I don't know how it is in your area, but here the good luthiers are always crazy busy. I hate having to leave my bass in the shop for one or two weeks--I try to schedule it while I travel out of the country...

 

[arnoldschnitzer]

I wonder if Eucalyptus (gum) would be a possibility? It rates around 2,000 on the Janka hardness scale.

Ipe= 3640 on the Janka scale.

 

[Andrew McGregor]

Eucalyptus warps... not good.

Jarrah, on the other hand, might work, it's tough as old boots. Or Kaihikatea, if you want to look on the other side of the Tasman Sea.

 

[gaelmckeon]

What about a eucalyptus laminate, for warp control. Bamboo? Bamboo grows like wildfire. Probably plenty strong..

 

[klyph]

Here is a wood density chart. North American woods cannot match ebony, bubinga etc

Very true, but I'm surprised to see how well hickory compares to rosewood on this chart. Legions of bassists have drawn decades of service from rosewood FB'd Kays, without needing biannual dressings.
How is it to handplane, Gael? My experience machining it into a custom kitchen (yes, really) was somewhat frustrating because of it's "stringiness" (really did a number on my planer blades, too)
What about a coating like epoxy? I mean, on top of a wood like hickory, it would seem almost bulletproof. Couldn't you get the parameters correct on the raw wood and then coat it, then fine-tune after coating? Or would this just kill the tone? Or is that too much work (with dangerous, unpleasant chemicals, to boot)?
I really like the idea of hickory- it's not rare, much less endangered; every hardware store in America has several pieces on hand, just waiting for an axe- or hammer head to be wedged onto them!

 

[eerbrev]

What about a eucalyptus laminate, for warp control. Bamboo? Bamboo grows like wildfire. Probably plenty strong..

if bamboo worked it would be an awesome solution.

 

[Thumpie]

What about a eucalyptus laminate, for warp control. Bamboo? Bamboo grows like wildfire. Probably plenty strong..

I've seen bicycles made out of bamboo...

 

[robobass]

Bamboo? Worth exploring. I did my kitchen in a bamboo plywood which turned out to be incredibly hard and dimensionally stable. It was difficult geting started (it isn't actually wood after all) but I ended up loving it and have used it for all kinds of furniture and even shop fixtures. I read a news article about it being used for wind turbine blades. The engineers quoted said that the right cuts - outermost layers - had properties comparable to CF. Still, the stuff I used was definately not anywhere near as stiff as ebony. I think it would take a lot of development to create a proper fingerboard from it. But, it could be done!