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Double Bass Alternatives to Walter Woods head
- Thread starter tito mangialajo
- Start date
That's interesting. My local shop has had those Kustom bass amps for years, cabs and PA's. Good bang for the buck gear, but quality wise, certainly not in the league with Walter's amps for double bass. The best thing about the Kustom amp is that it's going to be easy to purchase and carry a backup in case it fails.....their promo for the the amp, at least on Amazon, suggests that as important feature..that it is ideal to carry as a back up amp. For the $$ and effort, I think the Aguilar TH500 would be a better choice, cosidering the OP's query.
So have you played through the kxb500? Not other Kustom amps, but specifically the kxb500. Maybe you should check out my thread on the EB side where the kxb500 has been reviewed as good or better than the th500 and many other well regarded amps including Walter Woods. I owned many of Walters amps over the years(well over 30 of them), but today I choose the kxb500. It sounds better!
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Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
This is an interesting thread. I have never spent much time with a WW. Although I have been curious, the reality of having to leave a message for a guy and make arrangements to pay him several hundred bucks to service his product isn't something I want to be part of. Rick Jones (RJ) makes great amps and has the best service anywhere so that's who I deal with.
I owned a few Kustom amps when they were made in Chanute, KS. The 500 looks interesting and the price is certainly low. If it sounds as good as reported it sounds worthy.
I owned a few Kustom amps when they were made in Chanute, KS. The 500 looks interesting and the price is certainly low. If it sounds as good as reported it sounds worthy.
Yes, I've checked them out. Frankly, I found it to be sorta anemic in comparison to the WW or the TH500. That isn't saying the Kustom sounds bad..but it didn't seem like an amplifier that would be dependable or consistent over time for DB use. Build quality seemed so-so. And certainly it's voiced more for bass guitar than double bass imo. My feeling about the Kustom is that it would fatigue over the course of an evening, and that you might need some extra outboard eq to make it work for DB. I dig the look and footprint though. Owning WW and looking for a backup, in my search the Aguilar filled the bill in terms of the op's query. I have not been disappointed with my WW. Yes I've seen the thread on the BG side, did you start that? Do you play double bass? Have you gigged on DB over a long period with this Kustom amp?
The original Kustom amps are a whole 'nother story. I owned one, silver tuck and roll, 200 watts. Really well built amps, using US military spec components. The story i heard is that the guy who started the company's father owned a company building caskets for military casualties (Vietnam era) and that he was building amps in the same facility at the start. Great bass guitar amp for some styles (even now), not so great for DB ever.
The original Kustom amps are a whole 'nother story. I owned one, silver tuck and roll, 200 watts. Really well built amps, using US military spec components. The story i heard is that the guy who started the company's father owned a company building caskets for military casualties (Vietnam era) and that he was building amps in the same facility at the start. Great bass guitar amp for some styles (even now), not so great for DB ever.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
As I remember, you've owned and gigged with just about all the different models of Walter's amps that were out there, including the elusive MI-600-8 of which very few were ever built. If I compare my MI-400-8, to my Electroacoustic Ultra, I'd say
that the warmth of the older amplifier with it's analog pre and power amp is quite different from the Ultra with it's digital power amp, but I like them both. Although I love and have used Walter's amps for many years, the issue now is the cost and effort
it takes to maintain them if they need repair. At his $600.00 flat repair fee, difficulty sourcing quality parts for a discreet component amp, owning one is becoming more and more like, maintaining a 50's Corvette, it you love it, then you'll accept the, challenges associated with keeping it serviced. Most players aren't
going to do that, but I'm not most players.
I think that most amps I've tried, just don't give me the sound that I'm looking for like my Walter Woods amps do, especially with Double Bass. The EQ section is what I love about both of my Woods amplifiers. It took years to find a speaker cabinet that reproduced what Walter's amps
were capable of doing with a DB. Fortunately I purchased mine when the price for a Woods was more realistic. Personally, I deplore adding outboard devices to try and get a sound from an amp that it cannot produce on it's own. That's why I use a Headway EDB-2 into a powered speaker
for my smaller gigs, but the Woods are my main amps for larger venues.
All true, Bud Ross actually built some of the first reliable solid state amplifiers, when both Ampeg and Fender had great difficulty with solid state amplifiers and essentially abandoned them, returning to tube amps. Loved those roll, tuck and pleat covers.
Ahh, the elusive nauga. I still have a black tuck-and-roll Kustom 100 bass amp (2x12") from 1970. Only thing I've ever had to do to it was to install a proper grounded power cord (I didn't like the tingle I got every time I flipped the power switch).
Greg,
You're absolutely right about Rick Jones and Acoustic Image. When it comes to customer service, they have no peers. Since Rick redesigned the EQ section on the Claris 4+, Ten2, Contra, and the new Flex. I'm
fairly certain that you'll be able to get close to the more refined sound of a Walter Woods, but since I can't seem to find one locally to play, I'll just have to wait until someone in St. Louis bites the bait and purchases
one, so I can compare it to both my Walter Woods MI-400-8 and my Woods Electroacoustic Ultra. I'm so happy with those amps for DB and EB it will be hard to get me to switch to something else, other than
the Headway EDB-2 which is a very nice companion to a powered speaker. Just my opinion though.
Ric
Ahh, the elusive nauga. I still have a black tuck-and-roll Kustom 100 bass amp (2x12") from 1970. Only thing I've ever had to do to it was to install a proper grounded power cord (I didn't like the tingle I got every time I flipped the power switch).
I never did get around to installing a 3 Pronged cord on my B-15N(C) maybe that's something I should consider, but since it's just used at my house, doing that isn't on my short list. I remember that when Kustom, hit the stores in my hometown,
they were quite the rage and sounded really nice with Fender, Music Man, and other electric basses. Like Sunn, they built things that held up very well, and in the case of Kustom looked pretty cool too. I owned the Kasino 200 which was essentially
a Kustom 200 with a little different EQ setup I believe. Apparently Bud Ross started up Kasino so he could have two different amp lines that he could promote to different music stores in the same town. Seems tuck and roll didn't appeal to some
sectors of the market.
Ric
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I never did get around to installing a 3 Pronged cord on my B-15N(C) maybe that's something I should consider, but since it's just used at my house, doing that isn't on my short list. I remember that when Kustom, hit the stores in my hometown,
they were quite the rage and sounded really nice with Fender, Music Man, and other electric basses. Like Sunn, they built things that held up very well, and in the case of Kustom looked pretty cool too. I owned the Kasino 200 which was essentially
a Kustom 200 with a little different EQ setup I believe. Apparently Bud Ross started up Kasino so he could have two different amp lines that he could promote to different music stores in the same town. Seems tuck and roll didn't appeal to some
sectors of the market.
Ric
I had a Kasino 200 as well which I sold with a 60's Kalamazoo bass for about $75 in the mid 70's. Dumb move. My favorite Kustom amp was a white logo 60 watt combo I got around 1980. This was the one with the big white K. That was a nice little amp on slab.
Anyway, I think too much importance is placed on the amplifier. Find a solid, reliable amp with a high input impedance (especially with certain pickups) that doesn't mess with your sound. I've used a lot of different amps and found that I usually have been able to get my sound through any of them. I always try to improve my sound, but most of the improvement will come from more playing and physical approach.
Greg,
I had no idea that anyone else ever had the Kasino 200. I dubbed mine Igor, because I had to slide it longways, into the back seat of my 64 Chevy Bel-Air. You had to be careful, because you needed a running start to tilt that mother, down into the rear seat and wrestle it through the door, until it touched the arm rest on the opposite side of the car. I really don't miss mine, the B-15 fit in the trunk of the Bel-Air with "room to spare".
While I certainly believe that to be true, there are some amps that I've found to just not produce a good sound with double bass (SWR's,Hartke's etc., so now I have the Headway EDB-2 that I can insert into an amps effects loop, and presto change-o, I've got the sound I want.
That's a beautiful thing, Ric.
Speaking of automotive memories, LOL, I saw a car like I had once owned drive by the other day, a custom '54 Cadillac convertible, all the upgrades. Help me lordy, you could fit two DB's, a B-15 with the back seat removed, and still have plenty of room for fun in the front seat.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Ric,
My memory failed me due to the 35+ years that have passed since I sold it. I went googling and found that mine was the 75 watt Natural version with THREE bass tone knobs. Who needs mid and hi? I've lost a nice retirement nest egg selling and giving away gear.
My memory failed me due to the 35+ years that have passed since I sold it. I went googling and found that mine was the 75 watt Natural version with THREE bass tone knobs. Who needs mid and hi? I've lost a nice retirement nest egg selling and giving away gear.
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Hey, I used to just remember where my next gig was when I was in my 20's and 30's, maybe that was because I was playing with the same band all the time back then. Now I have them written down, or store them in my phone. When it comes to selling of gear, I certainly did my
bit, I kept my most prized gear, but I let a 67 Fender Jazz Bass (with paddle tuners) get away, and a very rare Ampeg B-15N(D) that had a 50 watt power section. The Kasino you owned was substantially smaller and lighter then that friggin' 200 that I owned, based on the
style of music I played, it was a very stupid purchase, considering there was a B-15 that I could have bought, sitting right next to it at the Anderson Music Store, in Indiana. I was going for "power" but you didn't even dare risk putting a Double Bass through that monster, because it would feedback for days.
Ric
From the Kustom KBX 500 automotive angle promo. Wow..'hoo-da ever thougt that ya hadda keep one in the 'Glove. I wonder how that sounded in another language before translation!
"Kustom is proud to present another model we hope will become an integral component in your rig. If you need big sound but are short on space, this amp was developed with you in mind. It is also the perfect practice head, or a spare amp that could almost ride in the glove compartment!"
"Kustom is proud to present another model we hope will become an integral component in your rig. If you need big sound but are short on space, this amp was developed with you in mind. It is also the perfect practice head, or a spare amp that could almost ride in the glove compartment!"
just fried my amp (sent to Rick...rick is going to put in a 10 Mohm imp because I was telling him how I liked the Headway Preamp so much and he immediately looked up the impedance of it and offered to switch it out. Would be great if the front end of the AI was fat like the Headway.)
But It gave me the opportunity to borrow an old Walter Woods M100 and plug it into the MAS 46. What a great sound. Man I sure regret selling the Woods. He has magic going on.
But It gave me the opportunity to borrow an old Walter Woods M100 and plug it into the MAS 46. What a great sound. Man I sure regret selling the Woods. He has magic going on.
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
The 10meg input is certainly a fatter sound which is one reason I like Rick's older amps. They just sound a bit better to me. If it ain't broke.................
Off topic maybe, but, having read lots of praise for Walter woods amps, especially the old mi-100 series, I can't help asking myself if anyone has ever measured what's going on with them? I mean, there has to be a measurable reason for the love these amps get, and I will probably never have the opportunity to try one... I recall reading somewhere (on Hubert Ligeois' site) that the preamp had considerable or even high distortion, but that's all I've ever read and it wasn't backed up by charts or anything. I'd love to know if the preamp is voiced, what the frequencies of the tone controls is, etc. And, would it be possible to tell the Walter woods from other quality amps in a double blind test?
Please be assured that I do not attempt to put the Woods down, or "burst bubbles" or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.
Best
Sidecar
Please be assured that I do not attempt to put the Woods down, or "burst bubbles" or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.
Best
Sidecar
Ouch, that's gotta hurt. I had to send my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra back to Walter two years ago when it "fried" because of a couple of drops of water falling through the top cooling vents, he fixed it quickly and got it back to me right away. It's expensive to have him work on them now, I'm sure
Rick Jones doesn't charge you $600.00 do repairs on his amps. I love my MI-400-8 and my Electroacoustic Ultra, but maintaing a Woods amplifier is an expensive proposition these days.
Well, it's been proposed that Walter's amps do produce some "artifacts" right around 100 Hz, but I've never had any issues with the amp at all. His pre amps have very good control in the lower and upper midrange. Hard to say about a double blind test, I'm not aware that anyone has ever done that. I just know
I like the pre amp on the older MI series better than anything I've heard for Double Bass, other than the Headway EDB-2, which IHMO is very close. The secret to me where the low midrange is set.
Ric
