I sometimes see amp models with normal or aluminium cone speakers. I think I saw this on Behringer's amps. Aluminium cones are only slightly pricier.
What is the difference?
What is the difference?
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Aluminium cone speakers. What's the diff?
- Thread starter Fastfwd
- Start date
Also Hartke (who pretty much started the trend from what I know) uses (almost?) exclusively aluminum cone speakers. It gives the cone ridgity I suppose, and tends to make the speakers a little more bright.
I'm sure someone will mosey on in here and give you a better idea of what the differences are shortly.
I'm sure someone will mosey on in here and give you a better idea of what the differences are shortly.
I'd rather have brightness from strings. I won't say aluminum cones rip more easily, but I've seen it happen and it was fuuuuuuuuuug LEE.
i have an older model GK 410 cab (not Backline, but basic entry level I think, no horn) with plastic cones. They sounded pretty good at the time, I ran a Yorkville 400 through them.
As I understand it the whole reasoning behind aluminum cone speakers has to do with the rigidity of the cone material. Theoretically when a more rigid cone material in use it will flex less than a less rigid material, thereby reacting to the movment of the speaker coil quicker & more precisley. The main benefit would be better tightness/attack/punch & like other people mentioned but generally people also often comment on them being brighter sounding. I play an AlumaBass 4x10 and would generally say the above is true.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Aluminum doesn't damp high frequencies as much as paper/pulp, so they typically will run a couple of kHz higher, all other things being equal.Fastfwd said:
I had a "1000w" 2x10 Behringer cab which I was assured by the guys at Behringer was RMS and not peak output.
The second gig I had it out I thought the speaker grill was rattling and by the end of the gig all 4 of the speakers tried to leave the cabinet at the same time - totally ripped apart.
BTW I was using a Hartke HA5500 - a 500w amp.
So that's in the bin and replaced by my new Ashdown rig
The second gig I had it out I thought the speaker grill was rattling and by the end of the gig all 4 of the speakers tried to leave the cabinet at the same time - totally ripped apart.
BTW I was using a Hartke HA5500 - a 500w amp.
So that's in the bin and replaced by my new Ashdown rig
I've played both paper and aluminum and there is a difference but I don't think is all that big a difference. Some say they are more articulate or hard hitting. Others say paper sounds warm and aluminum sounds cold.
Id say, if you like your highs punchy and forawrd, go aluminium, brighter perkier sound. Though if you like your growly rumbly lows, get paper.
dare i say period?
dare i say period?
I've played JBL D/K140F's all my life (in addition to EV, Epifani, Bag End, SWR) and can say, while the latter are much better at producing pant flapping lows, the JBL aluminum cones are much better at producing snap as you go up the D and G string without the need of a tweeter or hissy high attenuation.
I have a Bag End S15D, and the stock speaker went out and a JBL went in just for that reason. On top of an Epi T112, it's pure
bliss
Phil Anderson
Tucson, AZ
I have a Bag End S15D, and the stock speaker went out and a JBL went in just for that reason. On top of an Epi T112, it's pure
bliss
Phil Anderson
Tucson, AZ
the aluminium will expand and contract at higher volumes (more prone to temp changes aswell, I've heard) causing them to wear faster.
I have personally never been a fan of the alum. cones
I have personally never been a fan of the alum. cones
The only Aluminium cone I have heard / played is on my behringer BX1200 (120w combo) that I use for practice. I actually think this amp has a bit of a muffled kinda sound as opposed to being brighter. I must admit though, the whole sound in general out of this amp is pretty crap and im pretty sure its not a good amp to judge alluminium speakers!
Great question.
The short answer: Nothing really. When concerned with low frequency reproduction, diaphragm material is of little consequence.
The long answer: Diaphragm material will make a large difference for high frequency off-axis response, as well as wide band performance. A well damped material (such as a proplyene or paper for that matter) will transition into the distributed domain at a higher frequency, as well as the distributed effects will be less pronouced with a higher damped material.
I must explain what distributed mode is though: A speaker has two modes of operation - pistonic mode, and distributed mode. In the pistonic domain, as you can imagine, the diaphragm and moving assembly will act as a piston; moving air in a very predictable and controllable manner. Distributed mode is characterized as response (HF) attributes being largely dictated by A: Inductance (Le) and B: Diaphragm resonance and modes on the material itself. In other words, imagine distributed mode as being the mode where the voice coil's position and movement is not perfectly transmitted throughout the cone's surface. The cone itself will "bend" and wave in a chaotic and unpredictable fashion, exciting area based resonances and phase cancellations. Now remember, transducers are MASS controlled above resonance, so diaphram material deflection (spring), ductility, mass, and compliance (shear or mechanical resistance) ALL play a role in the cone's behavior. Because of the wide range of variables, and inconsistencies in materials manufacturing - predicting these behaviors is quite difficult.
As one could imagine, modern tools like FEA (Finite Element Analysis) modeling software, and experienced "know how" help engineers get closer and closer to quantifying mechanical behavior.
Anyway. Back to the question.
What's the difference? And I'm assuming here your question is in the context of MI speakers, specifically bass guitar speakers. ..
Aluminum will "break up" or enter into distributed mode much lower in frequency (if we're comparing to a paper cone for example) - due to the material itself (higher mass for given volume, denser. Has much sharper and agressive [parabolic] force/displacement curve) ductility factor. Obviously this is for a given diaphragm and dimentioned cone, and same suspension/motor.
What are the benefits/disadvantages of aluminum cone'd drivers for bass guitar?
Greater off-axis response/sensitivity (albeit, irregular and erratic) and typically better low frequency extension/reproduction (because of higher mass for given area). Overall sensitivity is a wash IMHO.
Disadvantage is some might not like the "tone" or sound. For a typical 12" aluminum driver (at least the ones I've done), first diaphragm resonance is around 350-400Hz. IIRC that's somewhere high up on the D string or G (as well as this band is produced in harmonics products from even the E and A string). To me, this sounds like a "bell" type resonance (a resonance is a transfer of two energies: kinetic and potential. or, think of mass/spring), as it's a lot of stored energy being released right there.
But really, there's no real "disadvantage". It's just different.
Personal preference.
Which brings me to another point (which is a general statement from me, not answering a question): There is no "good" or "bad", or better or best, in terms of speakers. It all comes down to the application. What are the goals and constraints (sensitivity, efficiency, size, extension) of the application? Where one type of speaker won't work well, it will excel in another application.
Couple that idea with the fact that audio and acoustics itself is being percieved by us - HUMANS! We are our own filter network. From what you see, feel, think and PAY for a product will weigh on how you HEAR a particular speaker (or bass, or amp for that matter).
Add to THAT, that the environment the speaker is placed into, 'in particular applications', can affect the total system performance (response, SPL) by up to 80%. For low frequency response (let's say below 100Hz), the room plays a HUGE roll in the sound.
Anyway. I should probably stop on my little rant. I'm getting a little carried away...
Hope this helps some.
-SDP
The short answer: Nothing really. When concerned with low frequency reproduction, diaphragm material is of little consequence.
The long answer: Diaphragm material will make a large difference for high frequency off-axis response, as well as wide band performance. A well damped material (such as a proplyene or paper for that matter) will transition into the distributed domain at a higher frequency, as well as the distributed effects will be less pronouced with a higher damped material.
I must explain what distributed mode is though: A speaker has two modes of operation - pistonic mode, and distributed mode. In the pistonic domain, as you can imagine, the diaphragm and moving assembly will act as a piston; moving air in a very predictable and controllable manner. Distributed mode is characterized as response (HF) attributes being largely dictated by A: Inductance (Le) and B: Diaphragm resonance and modes on the material itself. In other words, imagine distributed mode as being the mode where the voice coil's position and movement is not perfectly transmitted throughout the cone's surface. The cone itself will "bend" and wave in a chaotic and unpredictable fashion, exciting area based resonances and phase cancellations. Now remember, transducers are MASS controlled above resonance, so diaphram material deflection (spring), ductility, mass, and compliance (shear or mechanical resistance) ALL play a role in the cone's behavior. Because of the wide range of variables, and inconsistencies in materials manufacturing - predicting these behaviors is quite difficult.
As one could imagine, modern tools like FEA (Finite Element Analysis) modeling software, and experienced "know how" help engineers get closer and closer to quantifying mechanical behavior.
Anyway. Back to the question.
What's the difference? And I'm assuming here your question is in the context of MI speakers, specifically bass guitar speakers. ..
Aluminum will "break up" or enter into distributed mode much lower in frequency (if we're comparing to a paper cone for example) - due to the material itself (higher mass for given volume, denser. Has much sharper and agressive [parabolic] force/displacement curve) ductility factor. Obviously this is for a given diaphragm and dimentioned cone, and same suspension/motor.
What are the benefits/disadvantages of aluminum cone'd drivers for bass guitar?
Greater off-axis response/sensitivity (albeit, irregular and erratic) and typically better low frequency extension/reproduction (because of higher mass for given area). Overall sensitivity is a wash IMHO.
Disadvantage is some might not like the "tone" or sound. For a typical 12" aluminum driver (at least the ones I've done), first diaphragm resonance is around 350-400Hz. IIRC that's somewhere high up on the D string or G (as well as this band is produced in harmonics products from even the E and A string). To me, this sounds like a "bell" type resonance (a resonance is a transfer of two energies: kinetic and potential. or, think of mass/spring), as it's a lot of stored energy being released right there.
But really, there's no real "disadvantage". It's just different.
Personal preference.
Which brings me to another point (which is a general statement from me, not answering a question): There is no "good" or "bad", or better or best, in terms of speakers. It all comes down to the application. What are the goals and constraints (sensitivity, efficiency, size, extension) of the application? Where one type of speaker won't work well, it will excel in another application.
Couple that idea with the fact that audio and acoustics itself is being percieved by us - HUMANS! We are our own filter network. From what you see, feel, think and PAY for a product will weigh on how you HEAR a particular speaker (or bass, or amp for that matter).
Add to THAT, that the environment the speaker is placed into, 'in particular applications', can affect the total system performance (response, SPL) by up to 80%. For low frequency response (let's say below 100Hz), the room plays a HUGE roll in the sound.
Anyway. I should probably stop on my little rant. I'm getting a little carried away...
Hope this helps some.
-SDP
- Apr 13, 2006
- 624
- 302
- Disclosures
- If you heard me play, you'd stop reading what I write.
etnops said:
no, please go on! i'm loving it.
maybe not 100% relevent to this discussion, but i've noticed in the world of high end audio speakers that the trend to use exotic speaker cone materials (kevlar, carbon, reinforced polypropylene, etc. etc.) seems to be waning, and a lot of manufacturers are returning to paper. some call it 'doped paper,' or things like 'celulose fiber,' but my understanding is that it basically all paper, and they like the qualities of it.
yeah, i'm almost positive they're not paper, definitely not aluminum. maybe they're a really firm paper coated in some kind of plastic or something. i tried to poke at them just now and they're defintely something else.Jeff A said:
Delberthot said:I had a "1000w" 2x10 Behringer cab which I was assured by the guys at Behringer was RMS and not peak output.
The second gig I had it out I thought the speaker grill was rattling and by the end of the gig all 4 of the speakers tried to leave the cabinet at the same time - totally ripped apart.
BTW I was using a Hartke HA5500 - a 500w amp.
So that's in the bin and replaced by my new Ashdown rig
What Behringer 210 did you have? All the ones I've ever seen have been rated for 500 watts.
I have a 210 and 115 that I run 450 watts into each (900 watts total @ 8ohms), and I can turn up all the way without problem.
