Aluminium cone speakers. What's the diff?

[ibz]

maybe not 100% relevent to this discussion, but i've noticed in the world of high end audio speakers that the trend to use exotic speaker cone materials (kevlar, carbon, reinforced polypropylene, etc. etc.) seems to be waning, and a lot of manufacturers are returning to paper. some call it 'doped paper,' or things like 'celulose fiber,' but my understanding is that it basically all paper, and they like the qualities of it.

I am somewhat intriuged by this since I would think these "exotic" materials would be better for instrument amplication. But no manufacturers really thought this venture was worth the risk, since guitarist and bassists tend to be fairly traditional in thier thinking.

But maybe there's a reason paper's been so popular all these years...

 

[semborg]

I don't like the sound of alluminum cone speakers. I bealive its unnatural and sounds like metal. Very hard sound, I prefer the smoothness of an old usual speaker cabinet.

 

[Son of Bovril]

My harke 4.5 XL cabs sound great sometimes, then on other days I think they sound Cr#P. I think half of my tone judgement is based on my mood sometimes - the other times is based on how shiny those aluminium cones look on stage...

I have noticed that the speakers move a whole lot more than with other cabs at the same volume? is that the aluminium or just the cab taking strain cause I'm pushing it too hard?

 

[The 0x]

If you want to kill your audience onstage from shrapnel, use aluminum speakers & blow them. Make sure you're standing out of the way.


In all seriousness though, aluminum speakers seem to be more rigid, but alot more brittle than paper cones.

 

[Son of Bovril]

I haven't blown any yet (touch wood), but I can definitely say that there is a tonal difference - the alu has a certain brightness/harshness/edge to it that some players love, but others hate... my advice (as always) hear it for yourself and see what you think...

Certain pieces of gear just work well together, and some just bring out all the flaws in each other... it's like a relationship

 

[Ste_m3]

I am somewhat intriuged by this since I would think these "exotic" materials would be better for instrument amplication. But no manufacturers really thought this venture was worth the risk, since guitarist and bassists tend to be fairly traditional in thier thinking.

But maybe there's a reason paper's been so popular all these years...

(apologies for my constant refering to Hi-Fi, but im sure its relevent!) A couple of speaker companies, mission and wharfedale primarily, have started using "exotic" materials. i guess the direct replacement for a paper sound is kevlar, and for the aluminium tone, (im not 100%) but mission use a ceramic cone

 

[etnops]

no, please go on! i'm loving it.


maybe not 100% relevent to this discussion, but i've noticed in the world of high end audio speakers that the trend to use exotic speaker cone materials (kevlar, carbon, reinforced polypropylene, etc. etc.) seems to be waning, and a lot of manufacturers are returning to paper. some call it 'doped paper,' or things like 'celulose fiber,' but my understanding is that it basically all paper, and they like the qualities of it.

well, you bring up a good point. paper "for most applications[" is the all-around, go-to material. it's cheap, light, can be made quite rigid, and you can create and experiment with different cone iterations from the same tooling.

high end, exotic cone materials are just that: esoteric. do they offer an acoustic advantage? "it depends" typically, marketing pushes for something high-zoot, and the bean counters approve or not.

and it's the marketing guys that really push engineers to our best, and find (I really should say "stumble upon") great materials for a given application. i mean, speakers, and their basic design and construction haven't changed in over 80 years. ...the real advancement has been in material sciences: adhesives, and materials of construction for the soft parts (spider/damper, cone body, surround, voice coil bobbin, wire, insulation, adhesive, etc) have improved in those 80 years...as well as our understanding and proper implementation of them.

my newest kick has been composite core diaphragms. specifically a foam core (polymethacrylimide) with epoxy resined glassfiber skins laminated on either side. it's rediculously light and stiff, and equally expensive. but that's for another market all together anyway.....


-SDP

 

[The 0x]

I wouldn't call Peavey "high end audio," but they've been using kevlar in their speakers for decades.

 

[paulraphael]

my newest kick has been composite core diaphragms. specifically a foam core (polymethacrylimide) with epoxy resined glassfiber skins laminated on either side. it's rediculously light and stiff, and equally expensive. but that's for another market all together anyway.....

this doesn't surprise me at all. what i think is curious is the companies that make $30,000+ loudspeakers, have experimented with high tech cone materials, and have returned to paper.

 

[A9X]

Excellent responses SDP and I have nothing much to add except that simple metal coned drivers tend to have a lot of ringing which shows up clearly with in IMP (and ears). I tend to prefer paper for cones as it's a pretty good compromise and there are a huge vairety of pulp materials and compositions available. The only excetions have been with some of the smaller hi-end manufacturers like JM Lab, Focal and Accuton.
I also have a strong preference for polyester diaphrams in compression drivers over metal ones Be - Al - Ti in decreasing order of preference based on a lot of drivers tested.

 

[drums2bass]

I used to have a Hartke rig with the 4-10 Transporter cab, I always thought the aluminum cones sounded harsh and brittle

Maybe the higher end XL model sounds better i dunno

 

[barthanatos]

(apologies for my constant refering to Hi-Fi, but im sure its relevent!) A couple of speaker companies, mission and wharfedale primarily, have started using "exotic" materials.

My Martin-Logan SL3 home/hi-fi speakers have an electro-static element. The "speaker" is a mylar film (the stuff drum heads are usually made from). That's for everything above 300 Hz, anyway. There's also a sealed 10" regular speaker on each of the front towers. Oh, and they sound awesome.

more info at:
http://www.martin-logan.com/

 

[Timothy Duncan]

I play through jbl15 aluminum cone speakers. Live shows no comparison loudest speakers in the world. Mega punch. Forget low stage volume crank it. It handles it. For recording low volume direct and mic speakers. Two channels is all you need for complete control of the bass mix .there really isn't any other speaker comparable with jbl aluminun cones for reals. Truth.

 

[pbass74]

OK, I'll ask the question. What's the best cone for metal? Aluminum?

 

[agedhorse]

I play through jbl15 aluminum cone speakers. Live shows no comparison loudest speakers in the world. Mega punch. Forget low stage volume crank it. It handles it. For recording low volume direct and mic speakers. Two channels is all you need for complete control of the bass mix .there really isn't any other speaker comparable with jbl aluminun cones for reals. Truth.

Can you describe which JBL speakers have aluminum comes? I've been a JBL certified service guy since 1981 and I've never seen or reconed a JBL speaker with an aluminum cone. Everything I have worked with has been paper/cellulose based with either glass, boron or Kevlar fibers mixed in with the pulp.

 

[BadExample]

I am zombie clause

 

[okcrum]

no, please go on! i'm loving it.


maybe not 100% relevent to this discussion, but i've noticed in the world of high end audio speakers that the trend to use exotic speaker cone materials (kevlar, carbon, reinforced polypropylene, etc. etc.) seems to be waning, and a lot of manufacturers are returning to paper. some call it 'doped paper,' or things like 'celulose fiber,' but my understanding is that it basically all paper, and they like the qualities of it.

I'd chalk up the hifi world's new old infatuation with paper cones to the fact that they finally discovered impulse response testing. To best reproduce (approximate, actually) an impulse like the attack on a bass or guitar note, you need the lowest possible inertia for the part of the speaker that moves - the VC and cone. So you go for the lowest mass in those parts.

 

[agedhorse]

Paper and the various paper compounds excel at damping control.

 

[jnewmark]

Can you describe which JBL speakers have aluminum comes? I've been a JBL certified service guy since 1981 and I've never seen or reconed a JBL speaker with an aluminum cone. Everything I have worked with has been paper/cellulose based with either glass, boron or Kevlar fibers mixed in with the pulp.

I think he's confusing the dust dome on the old MI JBL bass drivers with " cones ".

 

[Redbrangus]

I presume that the reference to JBL drivers with aluminum cones is actually referring to the ones with aluminum dust-caps. D-series, K-series, and E-series. All mostly intended for the MI market, although there were a lot of studio monitors built around the venerable D-130. And they do indeed, sound 'brighter' than their equivalent Professional Series drivers--with paper dust-caps--from the same era. But having an aluminum cone is different than an aluminum dust cap. I personally don't care for the sound of aluminum cone drivers--the words 'too bright' and just plain 'harsh' come to mind--but everyone has their own tastes...there seems to be a lot of affinity on the board for a much brighter bass tone than what I like.