Always just like the record?

[bassinplace]

I said "Who cares?" because that is the general sentiment that I got reading others responses. "Who cares", meaning it dosen't matter to them if they don't play the songs note-for-note. I get it, they play the framework and do what they want to do for the rest.
Fine. Do whatever you want to do to those songs. Most of the people in the audience won't care. And most of the 'general' music being played by grage bands at their gigs dosen't require much thinking.

I have talked to lots of musical educators and one thing seems to be common. The students lack of wanting to put in any extra time to get songs NAILED. It seems that many people can only get so far figuring out a song and then have to succum to "improvising" a difficult part that they most likely could figure out but simply don't want to for any number of reasons. And they don't want to be drill instructors making their students go crying home to mommy.
Kind of reminds me of little kids getting a trophy when their team loses. Let's not hurt their feelings.

Perhaps it's not cool to be so precise? Sometimes it's just a couple of notes that make a huge difference but the all too often response is not one of "Oh, cool, now I can play it right", it's more like "Don't tell me how to play my instrument."
Tell me that dosen't happen. I wonder what FZ would have said to that kind of attitude??

Probably......:"You're FIRED!"

I play in one band, doing music that I like to cover the way it was recorded. The rest of the band takes that approach as well. I've been blessed to play in other bands where that was the same idea behind the musical presentation. I do not believe in "good enough". That approach is fine for joe six-pack that likes to just "jam". Perhaps that is a reason for so many jam bands as well. No rules, just play, so therefore no mistakes.
I like to put in the extra work.
I guess I have the time for that.

If you can learn the tune note-for-note, then you can go ahead and improvise on it. That's my opinion. Improvising without knowing or wanting to know the song correctly makes me think you didn't want to put in the extra effort from the get go, thats all.

If the coach tells the QB to execute the plays as designed and the QB decides to improvise, he better be pretty awesome or the team loses and the QB is on the bench studying game photos of where he went wrong as the fans file out early before the game is over. And there aren't that many great QB's that have that ability.

Not too many weekend warrior players like to put in the time all week, week after week to learn things correctly. Maybe they have families, jobs that require more than the average work week, etc. I don't have those worries so I put in the time.

My band is tight and spot on. The way I like it.
Because 'good enough' and improvising in parts that dont have room for it dosen't cut it in my band.

The hardcore Soundgarden/Audioslave/Temple of the Dog fan/s in the audience realise that when they see us play.

That's all that matters to me.

Carry on with the thread.

I also like to learn songs note for note. That's because I'm trying to learn and teach myself how to play. I must say though, that your tone comes across kind of elitist here. There's nothing wrong with improvising. Some of the greatest musicians in history were improvisers. Seems to me a great musician has the ability to do both.

 

[JimmyM]

That's probably because the students are smart enough to know that it's a waste of time, and not only because many of these basslines that you're "nailing" were improvised themselves, as has been stated here more than once.

As for your little kid & trophy comment, I don't see how you worked that in there. Are you sure that analogy fits?

He's just trying to be an internet big shot. Instead of wishing everyone well who doesn't do what he does, he's out to try to prove some strange point that he's better than us because he does note for note and doesn't play our type of dreck because he prefers playing his own type of dreck.

 

[Darth Handsome]

doesn't play our type of dreck because he prefers playing his own type of dreck.

Well, im probably guilty of this myself, but that's because it makes zero sense to me to replicate a recording in a live performance. The basslines played in a studio are played the way they are for the purpose of a specific recording. By playing the exact same notes live, you're really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. In my experience, 100 times out of a 100 there is a better way to play a piece of music for a live setting, even if the changes are very small.

 

[IAmTheWalrus]

For me it depends on the song, the bassline, and my mood when playing it. If it's something that is really memorable, or if it's just a bassline I really really like, I'll play that note for note. But if it's something that's just like root grinding or something simple and not really something people pay attention to, I'll embellish that. Unless I'm having a lazy day or one of those days were I'm just kinda "ho hum" all day

On a side note, I've always wondered if other people have days like that too

 

[DWBass]

4001...it's all good and I got your point. Probably mis-read your intention.

Anyway......I was at an open mic some time back and a dude asked me if I knew Spain (Chick Corea)!! I have never played it much less learn it but I know the song. I've been woodshedding that damn song for the last 2 months now trying to perfect it and get that arpeggio section right! There is NO room for 'improvising'!

I think the general consensus is that we 'should' learn the songs correctly but we don't necessarily have to perform them note for note (depending on the type of band and it's rules). I come across the 'lazy' folks more often than not!!

 

[powmetalbassist]

You can play anything you want. Even the recordings are just a suggestion.

yep!

 

[Darth Handsome]

I think the general consensus is that we 'should' learn the songs correctly

Once you've learned the chord(s) and understand the gist of what the bass is trying to accomplish, you have learned it "correctly". There's nothing more to be gained by also matching the exact phrasing & notes that the player used on the recording. It's probably necessary to be adaptable because you also have to pay attention to your drummer. Is he "nailing" the recording?

 

[JimmyM]

If we were all concerned about learning the songs note for note, there would have been no awesome cover versions of classic songs, such as these:

 

[Winterpegbass]

As a teenager in the school concert band and jazz programs I was trained to play what was on the sheet in front of me.

In the concert band setting you were not allowed deviate from what was on the sheet.

In the jazz band class (20 pc) you only improved the solo sections and only if you were the one doing the solo.

I mostly follow the same practice of learning parts and playing them note for note in the rock, pop and country bands I have played in over the years. I improv more in the blues bands that I have played in though.

Alot of rock musicians without a music education that I have played with are more likely to "make stuff up" or "fake it". Too often it is a "who cares" or a "why bother" attitude. Sometimes it is more narcissistic attitude or contempt for the recorded song.

The better players that I have played with also do it about 95% note for note and 5% improv.

 

[scotch]

...

The better players that I have played with also do it about 95% note for note and 5% improv.

The better players that I've played with learn the material probably at that ratio, but still perform it far less accurately. And I'm talking about performing the material with the original artist!

 

[Huge]

As a teenager in the school concert band and jazz programs I was trained to play what was on the sheet in front of me.

In the concert band setting you were not allowed deviate from what was on the sheet.

In the jazz band class (20 pc) you only improved the solo sections and only if you were the one doing the solo.

I mostly follow the same practice of learning parts and playing them note for note in the rock, pop and country bands I have played in over the years. I improv more in the blues bands that I have played in though.

Alot of rock musicians without a music education that I have played with are more likely to "make stuff up" or "fake it". Too often it is a "who cares" or a "why bother" attitude. Sometimes it is more narcissistic attitude or contempt for the recorded song.

The better players that I have played with also do it about 95% note for note and 5% improv.

As has been stated repeatedly, the recorded song is not the definition of the song. Sometimes bands release different versions of the same song. Which one is right?

I also have a concert band background, and would never deviate from the sheet music, as that's what was expected by the band leader and the other members of the band. When I jam with my friends doing classic rock covers, we certainly know the song structure, and the progressions, but we're certainly not note for note, and no one has ever once mentioned it to us.

Not learning a song note for note [DEL]has nothing[/DEL] rarely has anything to do with narcissism or contempt. It's more likely that a player is missing the skill necessary to play the song note for note. Assuming we're talking about a cover band, they likely realize that most audience members don't notice (or care even) if you're playing it differently than the recorded version, and there's more money to be made gigging instead of practicing.

The only reason to learn a song note for note is for your own satisfaction. Or to complain about the guy who didn't.

 

[Winterpegbass]

The better players that I've played with learn the material probably at that ratio, but still perform it far less accurately. And I'm talking about performing the material with the original artist!

I agree with you, thanks for fine tuning my statement!

I saw John Fogerty last night and his bass player played the parts about 80% the same as the recording but this varied with the song.

Killer drummer!!!

 

[vinny]

Once you've learned the chord(s) and understand the gist of what the bass is trying to accomplish, you have learned it "correctly". There's nothing more to be gained by also matching the exact phrasing & notes that the player used on the recording. It's probably necessary to be adaptable because you also have to pay attention to your drummer. Is he "nailing" the recording?

IMO, Most pertinent point in the thread. Thank you.

Frankly, I seriously doubt those in the note-for-note camp are as accurate as they say they are. You know, that ghost note in the 54th bar that's not exactly like the other third bars when the "B" part comes back around again. Or the 32nd & 48th bar that tie the eighth notes as opposed to playing them like the rest of the tune. As they say on Monday Night Football, C'mon man.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I agree with you, thanks for fine tuning my statement!

I saw John Fogerty last night and his bass player played the parts about 80% the same as the recording but this varied with the song.

Killer drummer!!!

When I do covers, I play as if I were auditioning for the artist and they are judging me based on how well I learned he tunes. You'll never lose a gig because you played the exact bassline. It shows you really did your homework.

ps. I did a session with that "Killer drummer!!!" you saw and yes, he's killer and one of the best in the 'biz!

 

[turnerstough]

For practicing, learning note for note lines can be really awesome. As far as playing tunes note for note live, I think it's a little much. Old school session guys like Jamerson and Duck Dunn improvised all the time. Most rock guys are totally not playing tunes not for note every time. Probably the only guys that are doing tunes note for note are big pop guys that have the Madonna, Mariah Carey gigs and are reading from charts.

 

[Jhengsman]

Well, im probably guilty of this myself, but that's because it makes zero sense to me to replicate a recording in a live performance. The basslines played in a studio are played the way they are for the purpose of a specific recording. By playing the exact same notes live, you're really trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. In my experience, 100 times out of a 100 there is a better way to play a piece of music for a live setting, even if the changes are very small.

Exactly and in my position when I get a setlist even with an available Youtube link I have no ideal if we will get the spirit up and try a Fred Hammond version of a song instead of a Chris Tomlin version. In either case I do not have the skill to pull of what their pros do. Our band does not have the instrumentation to match what a producer in Nashville mixes into his clean recording and we have real living and breathing people who may change the focus of a song

 

[66Atlas]

I'm in an all origninal band and I never play my own basslines note for note the same live.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I think it is more a matter of the style of music being played.

In Pop/Rock/Jazz or other popular style music what is being played isn't important has aving the right chord and the right lyric ... everything else can be modified ... it more like a canvas where you can do almost anything and the structure will stand. But I think it is sad because it just mean that everything recorded don't have any value, whatever they worked on isn't important because you can do whatever and it still work.

While you take classical music or a band like Dream Theater or many very extrem technical death metal band. The song is exacly like the recording because everything is thought and reharsed to work, you can't go outside or improvise because a part won,t work anymore if there is an harmony played by many instrument at once.

like the bass play the root, the guitar 1 play a 3rd over every note the bass does and the second guitar works the 5 and 7 on every note being played ... so you can't go outside.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

IMO, Most pertinent point in the thread. Thank you.

Frankly, I seriously doubt those in the note-for-note camp are as accurate as they say they are. You know, that ghost note in the 54th bar that's not exactly like the other third bars when the "B" part comes back around again. Or the 32nd & 48th bar that tie the eighth notes as opposed to playing them like the rest of the tune. As they say on Monday Night Football, C'mon man.

you obviously never played classical music. Because don't dare to play something that isn,t written, especially because you will destroy the harmony.

 

[lfmn16]

IMO, Most pertinent point in the thread. Thank you.

Frankly, I seriously doubt those in the note-for-note camp are as accurate as they say they are. You know, that ghost note in the 54th bar that's not exactly like the other third bars when the "B" part comes back around again. Or the 32nd & 48th bar that tie the eighth notes as opposed to playing them like the rest of the tune. As they say on Monday Night Football, C'mon man.

+1

I think that the only place most of the note-for-note players play songs 100% accurately is in their minds. Not to say it never happens, but I'm very skeptical. If anyone would like to post a recording from their last gig (bass audible please) to prove that they play all the songs 100% like the recording, I'd love to hear it.

I think this is where we start to hear "maybe not all of the songs 100% accurate."