Am I not built right to play Bass?

[green3101]

Hi All,

I am having some issues with my bass playing that I've been conflicting with (both physically and mentally) for years now and despite my best efforts (which usually means spending lots of money on different gear) to resolve I always seem to get stuck again. It's very deflating and brings me down quite a lot and has stopped me getting out there more with my playing, getting more involved with bands/other musicians to play with.

To start with let me describe myself - I'm a guy, 26 years old, 6'3, pretty slim - not the strongest guy despite continuous efforts to improve this by eating healthy and visiting the gym. I have long dangle arms (a large wingspan I guess you'd say with my arms outstretched) - However, I have very small hands with short, little fingers which aren't thick at all. Most girls who are half my height have the same sized, if not larger hands than me. It's almost as if the rest of me kept growing longer but my hands and fingers decided not to. To make things even more frustrating, my fingers are slightly webbed. I've attached some pictures of my hands next to a measure so you can see the measurements. I've tried to show the slight webbing between my fingers in some of the images too.

I play both Finger style and with a pick

My wrists/tendons in my forearms suffer from pain. I have RSI in my left wrist/tendons which is my fretting hand due to them being small and trying to reach and position my hand (I have tried various techniques and I never apply 1 finger per fret as I know about this leading to injury itself). I have played various types of basses from full scale 34' to short scale 30'. The big problem I face is that my larger, taller frame suits a full scale bass but my little hands struggle to stretch and reach the frets and play smoothly and efficiently. Raising the bass really high to help my hands really coops me up and feels uncomfortable due to how tall, long my arms are and as I said, i'm not that strong at all and struggle with maintaining the weight of basses. Especially when I move the bass to more of a 45 degree angle to the side of my body - this shifts the weight and gives me really bad back pain. I've experimented with a variety of straps with lots of padding and size to spread the weight - however, I still run into the same issues. Lowering the bass also proves a challenge as my small, out of proportion hands find it almost impossible to cope and my wrist can end up in horrible angles, especially if I follow the rule of "keeping the thumb on the back of the neck at all times" rule - which has never really made much sense to me as 90% of my bass heroes all put their thumb over the neck on numerous occasions when moving about the fretboard.

I also have a real problem with sitting down with a bass and practising too due to my height and long arms but again, really small hands - I have to lean right over and arch my back in order to sit with it and play properly - either that or lean back where the bass is almost laying on me. I can never sit up fully straight and practice as it's not comfortable at all and I can't relax. I posted a thread a few days ago regarding playing with a plectrum and wrist pain I get - I've posted a couple of pictures I had in that thread here as that shows me sitting down with a bass.

So following all this - my questions are as follows:

Due to my small hands (see the pictures) - should I/am I not able to play 34' scale basses efficiently? I have a Fender Jazz and a Fender Precision in my collection and i'd love to be able and ok to play them properly.

If you think I should stick with short scales - how to I get round the smaller bodies etc and getting comfortable due to my large frame?

Am I just not built to play bass pain free in any of my arms, wrists and back? Should I just give up? I really don't want to as Bass Playing is my thing so to speak and always has been since I was a teenager. I just get so deflated with all these problems I have and it does bring me down. I've studied so many of my bass heroes and all types of bassists (male and female) yet despite some maybe having small hands, they are also small people - which is all relative. I'm yet to come across any player that is built like me - really tall and lanky, long arms but small hands.

I’ve uploaded a few pictures of me playing both seated and standing so you can see.

Sorry for the super long post. It’s hard to fully explain everything and I struggle to explain things most of the time as my brain races and I’m a deep thinker and always feel I haven’t got everything down. Any help though would be greatly appreciated. I’m getting quite desperate for help.

If anyone needs any more info from me I’ll be happy to give it.

Mike,

 

[bholder]

TD;DR (yet) but yeah them are some short fingers. Will read.

 

[ZenG]

You could:- lengthen your strap so the back end of the bass sits lower so not so much angle on your plucking hand and you'll still retain the neck being more upright.

(2) play a thin skinny neck bass like an Ibanez SR series that has the 1.5" nut. You can get shortscales with a factory 1.5" nut too no problem.

(3) I don't see the "webbing" as an issue really. ( I don't really see much "webbing")

(4) no matter what scale bass you play there is no rule that says you have to play "one finger per fret" so feel free not to do that.

 

[filwitheneff]

Hi All,

I am having some issues with my bass playing that I've been conflicting with (both physically and mentally) for years now and despite my best efforts (which usually means spending lots of money on different gear) to resolve I always seem to get stuck again. It's very deflating and brings me down quite a lot and has stopped me getting out there more with my playing, getting more involved with bands/other musicians to play with.

To start with let me describe myself - I'm a guy, 26 years old, 6'3, pretty slim - not the strongest guy despite continuous efforts to improve this by eating healthy and visiting the gym. I have long dangle arms (a large wingspan I guess you'd say with my arms outstretched) - However, I have very small hands with short, little fingers which aren't thick at all. Most girls who are half my height have the same sized, if not larger hands than me. It's almost as if the rest of me kept growing longer but my hands and fingers decided not to. To make things even more frustrating, my fingers are slightly webbed. I've attached some pictures of my hands next to a measure so you can see the measurements. I've tried to show the slight webbing between my fingers in some of the images too.

I play both Finger style and with a pick

My wrists/tendons in my forearms suffer from pain. I have RSI in my left wrist/tendons which is my fretting hand due to them being small and trying to reach and position my hand (I have tried various techniques and I never apply 1 finger per fret as I know about this leading to injury itself). I have played various types of basses from full scale 34' to short scale 30'. The big problem I face is that my larger, taller frame suits a full scale bass but my little hands struggle to stretch and reach the frets and play smoothly and efficiently. Raising the bass really high to help my hands really coops me up and feels uncomfortable due to how tall, long my arms are and as I said, i'm not that strong at all and struggle with maintaining the weight of basses. Especially when I move the bass to more of a 45 degree angle to the side of my body - this shifts the weight and gives me really bad back pain. I've experimented with a variety of straps with lots of padding and size to spread the weight - however, I still run into the same issues. Lowering the bass also proves a challenge as my small, out of proportion hands find it almost impossible to cope and my wrist can end up in horrible angles, especially if I follow the rule of "keeping the thumb on the back of the neck at all times" rule - which has never really made much sense to me as 90% of my bass heroes all put their thumb over the neck on numerous occasions when moving about the fretboard.

I also have a real problem with sitting down with a bass and practising too due to my height and long arms but again, really small hands - I have to lean right over and arch my back in order to sit with it and play properly - either that or lean back where the bass is almost laying on me. I can never sit up fully straight and practice as it's not comfortable at all and I can't relax. I posted a thread a few days ago regarding playing with a plectrum and wrist pain I get - I've posted a couple of pictures I had in that thread here as that shows me sitting down with a bass.

So following all this - my questions are as follows:

Due to my small hands (see the pictures) - should I/am I not able to play 34' scale basses efficiently? I have a Fender Jazz and a Fender Precision in my collection and i'd love to be able and ok to play them properly.

If you think I should stick with short scales - how to I get round the smaller bodies etc and getting comfortable due to my large frame?

Am I just not built to play bass pain free in any of my arms, wrists and back? Should I just give up? I really don't want to as Bass Playing is my thing so to speak and always has been since I was a teenager. I just get so deflated with all these problems I have and it does bring me down. I've studied so many of my bass heroes and all types of bassists (male and female) yet despite some maybe having small hands, they are also small people - which is all relative. I'm yet to come across any player that is built like me - really tall and lanky, long arms but small hands.

I’ve uploaded a few pictures of me playing both seated and standing so you can see.

Sorry for the super long post. It’s hard to fully explain everything and I struggle to explain things most of the time as my brain races and I’m a deep thinker and always feel I haven’t got everything down. Any help though would be greatly appreciated. I’m getting quite desperate for help.

If anyone needs any more info from me I’ll be happy to give it.

Mike,

Small hands? Join the club! I play Precision Bass and a 5-string Yamaha without issues (both 34" scale). It's all in the technique. Mainly, don't do one finger per fret, as that will definitely cause pain. Just place your fingers on the fretboard in a natural position, and learn how to navigate without stretching your fingers.

As for your height? I'm only 5'8", so I've never had any issues with being too tall for anything!

 

[green3101]

Small hands? Join the club! I play Precision Bass and a 5-string Yamaha without issues (both 34" scale). It's all in the technique. Mainly, don't do one finger per fret, as that will definitely cause pain. Just place your fingers on the fretboard in a natural position, and learn how to navigate without stretching your fingers.

As for your height? I'm only 5'8", so I've never had any issues with being too tall for anything!

See this is my big problem. I’m 6’3! I mean, you say you have smaller hands but at least for you it’s relative

 

[JRA]

the instrument doesn't require a certain 'build'. some folks may seem to have some physical advantages, but that's usually just us saying "i can't do that."

if you want to play the instrument: there is a way you can do that. you might benefit from the right teacher. learning how to practice is the only skill any of us really need. there's a way for you to learn that, be assured. good luck!

 

[Gorn]

You do have oddly shaped fingers but there's no reason you can't play. Try out a short scale and see how you like it. There are people with no hands that can manage to play the bass. You can do it

 

[lz4005]

I have very small hands with short, little fingers which aren't thick at all.

First things first, your finger length isn't the problem. Yours are only about 1/4" shorter than mine and mine work fine. There are plenty of people with smaller hands than yours who are good players.

If I was you I would schedule appointments with a good bass teacher and a doctor.
Tell the teacher you need them to help you learn how to hold the instrument in the most healthy way and describe the pain you've been having in your wrists and back.
Same with the doctor. Make sure you don't have some kind of underlying medical condition and ask about stretching and strength building exercises specific to your needs. They may end up referring you to a physical therapist. Bring the bass with you to show them what you're doing and what hurts.

.... especially if I follow the rule of "keeping the thumb on the back of the neck at all times" rule - which has never really made much sense to me...

That isn't a rule.

One thing you should be doing, that I see from your pictures, is getting your elbows away from your body. That will straighten your wrists and eliminate some problems.
Also put your bass on a strap when you play seated. Adjust it so the bass is in the same position seated or standing. Sit up straight. No leaning forward or back. That's just asking for pain.

Try out a short scale and see how you like it.

His post says he's already done that. He included pics of him playing one.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Kala have a few models in ultra-short scale that weigh almost nothing. Have you given them a proper tryout?

Do you stretch the muscles in your arms & back every day?
Try getting a massage for your painful muscles.

 

[kesslari]

Hand size has little to do with instrumental ability.
See Wooten, Victor; Bailey, Steve; and Wellington, Anthony for small-handed, killer bass players.

 

[ZenG]

Hi All,

I am having some issues with my bass playing that I've been conflicting with (both physically and mentally) for years now and despite my best efforts (which usually means spending lots of money on different gear) to resolve I always seem to get stuck again. It's very deflating and brings me down quite a lot and has stopped me getting out there more with my playing, getting more involved with bands/other musicians to play with.

To start with let me describe myself - I'm a guy, 26 years old, 6'3, pretty slim - not the strongest guy despite continuous efforts to improve this by eating healthy and visiting the gym. I have long dangle arms (a large wingspan I guess you'd say with my arms outstretched) - However, I have very small hands with short, little fingers which aren't thick at all. Most girls who are half my height have the same sized, if not larger hands than me. It's almost as if the rest of me kept growing longer but my hands and fingers decided not to. To make things even more frustrating, my fingers are slightly webbed. I've attached some pictures of my hands next to a measure so you can see the measurements. I've tried to show the slight webbing between my fingers in some of the images too.

I play both Finger style and with a pick

My wrists/tendons in my forearms suffer from pain. I have RSI in my left wrist/tendons which is my fretting hand due to them being small and trying to reach and position my hand (I have tried various techniques and I never apply 1 finger per fret as I know about this leading to injury itself). I have played various types of basses from full scale 34' to short scale 30'. The big problem I face is that my larger, taller frame suits a full scale bass but my little hands struggle to stretch and reach the frets and play smoothly and efficiently. Raising the bass really high to help my hands really coops me up and feels uncomfortable due to how tall, long my arms are and as I said, i'm not that strong at all and struggle with maintaining the weight of basses. Especially when I move the bass to more of a 45 degree angle to the side of my body - this shifts the weight and gives me really bad back pain. I've experimented with a variety of straps with lots of padding and size to spread the weight - however, I still run into the same issues. Lowering the bass also proves a challenge as my small, out of proportion hands find it almost impossible to cope and my wrist can end up in horrible angles, especially if I follow the rule of "keeping the thumb on the back of the neck at all times" rule - which has never really made much sense to me as 90% of my bass heroes all put their thumb over the neck on numerous occasions when moving about the fretboard.

I also have a real problem with sitting down with a bass and practising too due to my height and long arms but again, really small hands - I have to lean right over and arch my back in order to sit with it and play properly - either that or lean back where the bass is almost laying on me. I can never sit up fully straight and practice as it's not comfortable at all and I can't relax. I posted a thread a few days ago regarding playing with a plectrum and wrist pain I get - I've posted a couple of pictures I had in that thread here as that shows me sitting down with a bass.

So following all this - my questions are as follows:

Due to my small hands (see the pictures) - should I/am I not able to play 34' scale basses efficiently? I have a Fender Jazz and a Fender Precision in my collection and i'd love to be able and ok to play them properly.

If you think I should stick with short scales - how to I get round the smaller bodies etc and getting comfortable due to my large frame?

Am I just not built to play bass pain free in any of my arms, wrists and back? Should I just give up? I really don't want to as Bass Playing is my thing so to speak and always has been since I was a teenager. I just get so deflated with all these problems I have and it does bring me down. I've studied so many of my bass heroes and all types of bassists (male and female) yet despite some maybe having small hands, they are also small people - which is all relative. I'm yet to come across any player that is built like me - really tall and lanky, long arms but small hands.

I’ve uploaded a few pictures of me playing both seated and standing so you can see.

Sorry for the super long post. It’s hard to fully explain everything and I struggle to explain things most of the time as my brain races and I’m a deep thinker and always feel I haven’t got everything down. Any help though would be greatly appreciated. I’m getting quite desperate for help.

If anyone needs any more info from me I’ll be happy to give it.

Mike,

There is absolutely No need to keep your thumb rigidly on the back of the neck. It should be able to move around at all times and creep over the edge of the neck.

The bend in the wrist from playing "rigidly" in a thumb-fixed position is what gives most people wrist issues.

How much does your basses weigh? Maybe you need a lighter bass amongst other things..

 

[BBox Bass]

I'm a short chick with equally short fingers. It took a bit of experimenting with techniques, but I can reach what I need to and play without hurting myself. Watching upright players use their pinkies and forcing myself to do the same helped a lot. I own both 34" and 35" scale necks in a variety of widths. As someone else suggested, Ibanez SR necks are very comfortable for us digitally-challenged folks.

 

[Fredrik E. Nilsen]

I have smaller hands than you, and I play P-bass, fretless, 6-string, double bass. It's not about the size of your hands.

 

[tradernick]

I guarantee you that there's nothing about your physiology which will prevent you from doing whatever you want on bass. I've done quite a bit of teaching and I've had people with various quirks that they've had to overcome before they find a way to play, and an instrument, that works.

Do you have a teacher? It's gotta be the right fit but the right teacher can help you for sure. This just popped into my head but... how about a local university music department, if there's one handy. I know that if you had showed up at my department, there would have been no shortage of guys trying to solve this puzzle.

There's an exercise physiologist here who works exclusively with artists - painters, musicians, dancers etc. Is there someone like that near you?

 

[honeyiscool]

What's clear to me is that you've been given a lot of expectations about the "correct" way to play bass and this has somehow affected your ability to find a comfortable way to do so. I have a non-standard playing technique to adapt my weak hands and small frame. So let me help you out a bit, given the things you've told us about your body....

1. Lengthen your strap. I don't like to play with T-rex wrists. Having the bass strings thigh high lets my plucking hand be very relaxed. I play both finger style and pick, and at this height, I don't find either to be difficult. The only technique you can't really do at this strap length is double thumb slap style, but that's such a specific technique that if you know you needed it, you would already know it.

2. Don't play sitting down with the bass on your knee. Use a stool or something and wear the strap around your neck and let the bass drop to the same height as when you're standing.

3. Don't stretch your fretting hand, ever. Slide into position for every note. Don't stretch. Use the pinky to keep your hand relaxed. Even if you use one fret per finger, which I do suggest you drop, you can just slide the center of mass for every note. So don't keep your wrist static, it should move into position for every note so that your hand never has to stretch. Don't pre stretch interval, only move to each fret as needed.

4. Don't bother with the thumb on the back of the neck. That being "correct" technique is nonsense and only really makes sense if you have a high playing position. Watch a lot of guitar shredders and you'll notice plenty of them have the thumb on the top of the neck for single notes and get tons of speed that way. On bass, my thumb goes all over. It is at the back of the neck when I'm in the middle of the bass. It might go at the top of the neck sometimes. But here's the thing. When my fingers have to reach over for the bass strings at high frets, it's not uncommon for my thumb to be not on the neck at all, sort of just hanging out at the bottom of the neck.

5. Try a 5-string bass. This was a big one for me. I never enjoyed playing a full scale 4-string bass because it just didn't feel comfortable to me. I enjoyed short-scale 4-string basses, but switching to a 5 gave me a ton of newfound playing ability because now, I have so many positions. Say you're playing in F minor, so you need to go from F to A flat, that's a 3 fret stretch from the 1st to the 4th on the E string. This is not comfortable for me. On a 5-string, I can play that on the 6th fret on the B string to the 4th on the E string. Not only is it a 2-fret stretch, it's in a much shorter area of the bass where stretches are a lot easier. You can effectively have a much shorter bass on a 5-string and move vertically instead of horizontally.

 

[Kevin1960]

I would say you have some good company.

 

[honeyiscool]

6. Also, from your pictures, your arms look a bit tense. Someone should be able to pick up your arms and they should feel like noodles, just don't hold them so rigid. I don't think you need to get your elbows away from the body necessarily, but keeping your wrists straight (but relaxed) will naturally do that for your fretting hand. If you lengthen your strap, your plucking arm will become straighter and your elbows will actually come into the body.

7. If you start dropping strap height, you will start to understand that neck dive is a thing. If you have greater strap length and you're trying to still have an upward facing neck, then you can't have a relaxed plucking hand if you have even the slightest amount of neck dive. Your wrists can't be supporting the neck. If it starts to go horizontal when you let go, you need to change your tuners out for lighter ones. Fender styles are the worst, but even with smaller tuners like those on a Yamaha or Ibanez, you can often achieve huge improvements by switching out steel tuners for lightweight aluminum tuners, because usually those basses have lighter bodies to go along with the lighter tuners, and remember, a neck is like a lever arm, so even losing 3-4 ounces at the headstock makes a huge difference to the overall comfort. And in my post earlier, I said how sometimes my thumb just lifts completely off the neck and just kind of sits on the side of my hand. You can't use this technique on a bass that is in any stage of neck dive. Neck dive is literally a show stopper for me. I can handle a 9 pound bass just fine, but it can't be diving even the slightest bit for me to have the relaxed style I like to play with.

 

[RichardW]

Have you seen Dusty Hill of ZZ Top? That guy practically has paws. Your fingers look longer than his. You don't describe any problems fretting, so maybe you should focus on being primarily a pick player?

 

[nonohmic]

The nails on my index fingers stick out over the flesh, no matter how much i trim them back. So I can never get that true thump as there is always a certain hardness to the note.

I still play.

 

[honeyiscool]

Lowering the bass also proves a challenge as my small, out of proportion hands find it almost impossible to cope and my wrist can end up in horrible angles, especially if I follow the rule of "keeping the thumb on the back of the neck at all times" rule - which has never really made much sense to me as 90% of my bass heroes all put their thumb over the neck on numerous occasions when moving about the fretboard.

Reading this really convinces me that you need lighter tuners on your Fender bass, which I assume has stock tuners. If you replace your tuners with Hipshot Ultralites, then you can drop your strap but still keep the neck high. I like my strings to be at thigh high where I pluck, but when I put my fretting hand near the 5-7th frets on my 5-string, which as I mentioned I like to use the 5-string to effectively create a shorter scale instrument, it's about level with my belly button. It's not a particularly exaggerated angle of holding the bass, but a stock Fender doesn't want to hold up at that angle. Change the tuners and it can rest at that angle.