Am I the jerk here? Reverb return

[DrummerwStrings]

This is incorrect. Contracts 101: Offer + acceptance = contract.

This doesn’t contradict anything in my post.

 

[tpaul]

Maybe I'm mistaken but it looks (from the OP) as though the weight questions was not asked until after the purchase offer was made and accepted.

Under those circumstances, as the buyer I would be disappointed but would not attempt a return or partial refund, because I would consider it to be my own fault. The weight question should have been asked before the offer was made. After the deal is done, it's done. Too late to ask. The fact that the seller ballparked it misleadingly doesn't matter to the deal which was already made. IMO, YMMV.

 

[Altitude]

There’s a completed transaction when $ changes hands & item (or service) is delivered; there is a deal before the completed transaction, & it is not always clear exactly when.

It is clear on an ecommerce site where the buyer makes an offer and in the process of doing so acknowledges that the offer is binding. No ambiguity here.

Here's the info on this from the Reverb site:

https://help.reverb.com/hc/en-us/articles/360033103134#Required

 

[muggsy]

There’s a completed transaction when $ changes hands & item (or service) is delivered; there is a deal before the completed transaction, & it is not always clear exactly when. Otherwise Contracts wouldn’t be a full course in law school.

Your post prompted me to reread the OP, & OP says he asked for the weight before he made his offer - I thought it was after.

OP also said he’s been looking for this bass for some time - if the weight is the only thing wrong with the bass, then maybe keep the bass while the OP keeps shopping. When a better bass comes along, OP can then sell the 11 pounder.

This is incorrect. Contracts 101: Offer + acceptance = contract.

What OP said:

I’ve been looking for a early 80s Fullerton STD P with rosewood board… found one! Placed a lower but still fair offer. Accepted!

my first very first question before payment and checkout (and perhaps out of order here and my one and only error in the process).

“what’s the weight?”

So he made an offer, it was accepted by the seller, then he asked about the weight before submitting payment. We already had offer + acceptance BEFORE the weight question was asked. OP, it's your bass.

This doesn’t contradict anything in my post.

What I was correcting was this: "Your post prompted me to reread the OP, & OP says he asked for the weight before he made his offer - I thought it was after." It WAS after.

But "Offer + acceptance = contract" also responds to your observation that it's not always clear when you have a deal before a transaction is completed. In this case, it IS clear. He made an offer and it was accepted. End of story.

 

[mikecd1]

Its all unfortunate except it wasn't as described and by a fair amount. I've had this issue before and 1-2 ounces is all I'm prepared to allow for scale variance NOT two pounds. If you want to keep it for whatever reason that's fine, but you're fully within rights to request a return with clear conscience. 11 lbs would never work for me unless just for studio and I couldn't afford one of those at that price to just sit and wait for the studio. Lots of nice plugins out there to mimic other instruments anyway.

 

[Knavery]

Its all unfortunate except it wasn't as described and by a fair amount. I've had this issue before and 1-2 ounces is all I'm prepared to allow for scale variance NOT two pounds. If you want to keep it for whatever reason that's fine, but you're fully within rights to request a return with clear conscience. 11 lbs would never work for me unless just for studio and I couldn't afford one of those at that price to just sit and wait for the studio. Lots of nice plugins out there to mimic other instruments anyway.

Most scales vary by 1-2 ounces. You must be very difficult to do business with.

 

[Bass Viking]

I'm not understanding something. The listing says it weighs 11 pounds, but you asked her anyway and she said 9 pounds, but then when it got to you it weighed what the listing said? I'm not certain how it's not as described or why you asked her, unless I'm missing something about the listing.

What makes it confusing, is her saying "about". That word means close i'm guessing..

You know good and well Jaco and Jamerson had no idea how much their basses weighed. So you can’t assume the widow of a bassist would know. If I told my wife how much my bass weighed, if I slipped it into conversation she’d ask me to leave. Likewise, if you asked my wife to weigh my bass after I departed, she’d stand on a scale and guess which is most likely what happened here. So get your money back. Dead bassist’s ghost says “play it or weigh it”.

I know you'd expect "about 9lbs" to be like 9lbs, 2 oz... but to someone who doesn't play, or just dabbles, 11 lbs is about 9. To us the difference is an anchor.

She probably weighed it on her bathroom scales anyway and if they aren't calibrated, it may have read that.

It is frustrating, and technically you have a case to be refunded.

Are you being a jerk? In her eyes, yes, in yours, no.... If it's something ypu can't live with, return it and don't worry about it. She'll just have to learn to be more precise in the future.

It's not clear from the first post whether it's the widow selling the bass or if it's a third party. Since the seller stated the weight as 9 pounds, which is a typical weight for a bass, my guess is that they know something about basses.

However, broadly speaking 11 pounds is not a comfortable weight. Unless you're sitting down.

 

[mikecd1]

Most scales vary by 1-2 ounces. You must be very difficult to do business with.

LOL But I said I was prepared for the 1-2 ounce variation not 1-2 pounds. You're a picky reader

 

[JRA]

Am I the jerk here?

given the binary implied in your question i voted "yes" but i give you some credit for 'owning' your own mistake(s).

you made a purchase and you got a nice instrument that you like, but it's different than you thought it would be. it wasn't misrepresented so much as it was "guessed at" (you accepted the "guess") and you still ended up with one of the good ones, which you acknowledge. your seller is not likely to be interested in "lessons on bass buying and selling" but you are: caveat emptor!

accept the ax, play it or sell it or play it and then sell it, it's yours and you can do as you please.

congratulations on your new instrument!

if that bass was two pounds lighter maybe her husband would still be alive.

 

[sleddogn]

I just find it unfortunate that this even happens on both sides. One will almost never change another's mind on this topic. I'm personally in the camp of, i couldn't tell difference in 9 vs 11 when holding both, each in a hand. I'm amazed and impressed in those that can, that seems like a marketable talent at the county fair...

 

[Black Out Jazz]

Who knows if this is fabricated? Seller can say anything they want. Heartstring tugs?

"
Here’s where the karma gets tricky. Listing mentions “raising money for a woman who lost her husband last year”

He was the original owner and was a veteran. Bass is in great player-grade shape actually considering (maybe because it’s 11lbs and tended to sit in the case!”)

 

[creaturegods]

Just wanted to comemmorate this momentous occasion: We've reached 11 pages. One page for each pound this bass (allegedly) weighs.

And we still haven't seen a single photo of the dang thing.

Good work, everybody.

 

[Bass Viking]

The seller told you 2 stories:

1) The weight of the bass

2) The situation - why they need the money.

We know #1 is a lie. I’d bet #2 is as well.

That wouldn't surprise me and even if it is true it comes across as manipulative. "The poor woman, her husband died and he devoted his life to serving his country and defending your liberty. The least you could do is buy the bass!"

 

[Bass Viking]

I'm personally in the camp of, i couldn't tell difference in 9 vs 11 when holding both, each in a hand. I'm amazed and impressed in those that can, that seems like a marketable talent at the county fair...

How about after a 2 hour gig?

 

[groooooove]

This is such an interesting thread.

On the one hand, you were 100% misled. return it. their reasons are none of your concern.

at the same time, you asked the question after agreeing to pay/buy it, so the answer is inconsequential. i don't know reverbs rules, but you bought it based on the listing, not the question afterwards.

i'm certain the seller does not understand that 11lbs for a bass guitar is at the very extreme. it's so uncomfortable many of us would sell/not buy that bass.

but again, their ignorance is not your issue.

i'm inclined to say just keep it if it plays well. I played a 12 lb walnut carvin 6 starting out my career as a full time player. It was a back breaker but i survived. I doubt you'll play this bass as much as I played that one, too.

really a tricky one, that comes down to what reverb decides i guess.

 

[sleddogn]

How about after a 2 hour gig?

Honestly, not a problem for me, but i know it is for others.

 

[DOMIT]

To me all questions should be asked before purchase and honesty to the best of everyones knowledge should always apply. 11 lbs is heavy if you have a bad back or some other health issue. If you don't, now you get to get a work out. If it sounds good keep it.

I have a bad back (7 broken bones in my spine - 2 in my neck, 5 in my upper back) and 11 pounds isn't too heavy.

 

[Runlikegregg]

I think returning a used Fender P bass because it's too heavy is silly and if I were the seller I wouldn't honor your request.
I think you are out of line. But not horribly so. Just not justifiably so.

 

[markdavid]

This is an ongoing matter here but let’s see what TB says


I’ve been looking for a early 80s Fullerton STD P with rosewood board… found one! Placed a lower but still fair offer. Accepted!

my first very first question before payment and checkout (and perhaps out of order here and my one and only error in the process)

“what’s the weight?”

“about 9lbs, very comfortable!”


Great! bass arrives as described except it weighs 11lbs. From the listings I’ve researched, and the other maple necked Fullertons I’ve put my hands on, 9lbs is actually on the heavy side. 11lbs feels like an anomaly, yes body is original.

Reverb agrees this is an issue of not as described.

Here’s where the karma gets tricky. Listing mentions “raising money for a woman who lost her husband last year”

He was the original owner and was a veteran. Bass is in great player-grade shape actually considering (maybe because it’s 11lbs and tended to sit in the case!”)

seller is pissed and thinks it’s “absurd” that I’m wanting to kill a deal “because of 2lbs” and I acknowledged the bad reverb karma on my end.

arguably this bass plays and sounds better than the other 83s I’ve played… and maybe the heavy body has something to do with that. Idk it just isn’t sitting well with me either way.


Am I the ******* here?

is anybody here interested in a boat anchor? Could be showing up in the classifieds later today.

Oh man, you would hate my Harley Benton JB-75 , 12.5ibs of bass

 

[DrummerwStrings]

What I was correcting was this: "Your post prompted me to reread the OP, & OP says he asked for the weight before he made his offer - I thought it was after." It WAS after.

But "Offer + acceptance = contract" also responds to your observation that it's not always clear when you have a deal before a transaction is completed. In this case, it IS clear. He made an offer and it was accepted. End of story.

Gotcha. Still don’t care enough to slow down the speed read, saw the ‘perhaps out of order here’ & then I started to write & moved on to other things. Thanks for the correction, guess I got it right the 1st time a few days ago.

This case is straightforward thanks to Reverb’s TOS. Point I made is knowing when a contract is made isn’t always clear.

Basically, we’re saying the same thing, which can be said of many of the posts in this thread.