Am I the only one that obsesses over fingerboard position

[Whippet]

Check out the REAL Bass.

I was interested in that REAL bass. Interestingly no one plays them. My friends here asked me if I have lost my mind.

On a different note, I know of a mother that forced her 3 daughters to play the bandura, hoping that they might one day become 3 bandura playing sisters in USSR. Well..... they all hated it to the point that, to this day, they all hate music. I am sure if they dressed up in micro skirts and bikinis, they could have made a lot of money playing the bandura and singing like the group Viagra. The nationalists would love it! LOL

 

[IamGroot]

I have friends with Ukrainian wives, and they were planning to retire in Ukraine, but not now.

 

[IamGroot]

I was interested in that REAL bass. Interestingly no one plays them. My friends here asked me if I have lost my mind.

On a different note, I know of a mother that forced her 3 daughters to play the bandura, hoping that they might one day become 3 bandura playing sisters in USSR. Well..... they all hated it to the point that, to this day, they all hate music. I am sure if they dressed up in micro skirts and bikinis, they could have made a lot of money playing the bandura and singing like the group Viagra. The nationalists would love it! LOL

Three daughters - they can be the next Serebro. I assume you know the infamous video "Mama Lyuba Davai". They got away with all the nasty stuff as they played up the pro-Russia angle. Almost all talent and movies in the RU are government controlled again.

 

[Whippet]

Three daughters - they can be the next Serebro. I assume you know the infamous video "Mama Lyuba Davai". They got away with all the nasty stuff as they played up the pro-Russia angle. Almost all talent and movies in the RU are government controlled again.

Just gotta wonder, who believes this junk. Both sides acting like idiots.

 

[Whippet]

IMHO it sounds like you have learned enough to stick with the 6-string. I used to play one of the US made NSD 6-string electric uprights. I didn't particularly like playing swing standards on it because it sounded more like a fretless electric than a string bass, but it was incredible for more modern compositions and the low B string blew my mind.

I got this because I just love the B and C on a electric and can't live without it. So I figured I should just take a plunge and get a 6 string EUB. Which off course is only made by NS.

The other reason why I got this EUB is because the contrabass/dog house is just too big. My wife would not like it.

 

[Wasnex]

I got this because I just love the B and C on a electric and can't live without it. So I figured I should just take a plunge and get a 6 string EUB. Which off course is only made by NS.

My primary electric has been a Yamaha TR6P since around 1995 so my rationale for getting the 6-string NSD was very similar to yours. The US made NSD was close to $7000 and was bought special for me by the band I worked for. The band also provided me with a nice string bass with the normal 4 strings. Unfortunately I had to return all of these instruments when I retired...I would have really liked to keep the NSD.

 

[Whippet]

My primary electric has been a Yamaha TR6P since around 1995 so my rationale for getting the 6-string NSD was very similar to yours. The US made NSD was close to $7000 and was bought special for me by the band I worked for. The band also provided me with a nice string bass with the normal 4 strings. Unfortunately I had to return all of these instruments when I retired...I would have really liked to keep the NSD.

Remember the Brexit? I got mine from England when the pound took a nose dive. I believe mine is made in Czech. Really a good instrument. One of a kind. The neck is great. The contour on the back really works well.
I doubt purists would understand or like it but when space in the apartment is limited and you need more than 4 strings, this is one of the choices. I was thinking about getting BSX, MK, Eminence, Alter Ego, but I can't live without that high C and the neck is just too good to be true.

Like you and others have mentioned, getting used to finger position is one hell of a job but it forces me to continue to learn the fret/finger board. So far it's working out!

 

[IamGroot]

One of my nieces going into 6th grade has taken up upright.

She has never heard of Simandl or used a bow and her parents do not have a teacher for her,....

Until now.

 

[Wasnex]

Remember the Brexit? I got mine from England when the pound took a nose dive. I believe mine is made in Czech. Really a good instrument. One of a kind. The neck is great. The contour on the back really works well.
I doubt purists would understand or like it but when space in the apartment is limited and you need more than 4 strings, this is one of the choices. I was thinking about getting BSX, MK, Eminence, Alter Ego, but I can't live without that high C and the neck is just too good to be true.

Like you and others have mentioned, getting used to finger position is one hell of a job but it forces me to continue to learn the fret/finger board. So far it's working out!

I checked the NSD web site. The EU version is supposed to be the same as the original US version, so your instrument should be almost identical to the one I played, but made in CR.

I found the channel running down the back of the neck a bit confounding because I switched between electric bass, string bass, and also the NSD. The NSD's unique neck contour caused my hand shape to change enough from my string bass technique that I had to build up a new set up muscles. Oddly I felt the NSD design required more hand strength which is a bit odd considering I played a 7/8 scale string bass set up more for bowing than jazz. I required regular practice on the NSD to maintain the necessary strength and endurance, and even then, long sessions were taxing.

I enjoyed the high C on the NSD for soloing in jazz combos. My instrument came with special strings designed specifically for the bass that were a bit bright and twangy, so I tended to avoid the C string unless I was playing around G or higher...unless I wanted the sound to be really obnoxious. I normally like a fairly bright and stringy sound, so I play in lower positions on most instruments. Sometimes playing in higher positions is more desirable on the NSD to darken the tone and give a little more thump. IMHO, the instrument is highly resistant to developing thump...instead the notes kind of bloom out of it.

It's very true that the extra strings change the way you play as there is no need to shift up and down the neck as much. However, shifting is an extremely important skill that should be mastered. Don't discount the value of playing scales on one or two strings. When you are ready, consider playing two octives over two strings with various shifts and finger patterns.

Finding an instructor to guide you on this instrument could be a bit challenging because it is so different from a string bass. Surely it would need to be someone who is open minded and adaptive. In particular, if I remember correctly, there is no need or benefit to using thumb technique on this instrument because there is no bass body to get in the way. You simply continue playing up the neck using the normal technique.

 

[Whippet]

I checked the NSD web site. The EU version is supposed to be the same as the original US version, so your instrument should be almost identical to the one I played, but made in CR.

I found the channel running down the back of the neck a bit confounding because I switched between electric bass, string bass, and also the NSD. The NSD's unique neck contour caused my hand shape to change enough from my string bass technique that I had to build up a new set up muscles. Oddly I felt the NSD design required more hand strength which is a bit odd considering I played a 7/8 scale string bass set up more for bowing than jazz. I required regular practice on the NSD to maintain the necessary strength and endurance, and even then, long sessions were taxing.

I enjoyed the high C on the NSD for soloing in jazz combos. My instrument came with special strings designed specifically for the bass that were a bit bright and twangy, so I tended to avoid the C string unless I was playing around G or higher...unless I wanted the sound to be really obnoxious. I normally like a fairly bright and stringy sound, so I play in lower positions on most instruments. Sometimes playing in higher positions is more desirable on the NSD to darken the tone and give a little more thump. IMHO, the instrument is highly resistant to developing thump...instead the notes kinda of bloom out of it.

It's very true that the extra strings change the way you play as there is no need to shift up and down the neck as much. However, shifting is an extremely important skill that should be mastered. Don't discount the value of playing scales on one or two strings. When you are ready, consider playing two actives over two strings with various shifts and finger patterns.

Finding an instructor to guide you on this instrument could be a bit challenging because it is so different from a string bass. Surely it would need to be someone who is open minded and adaptive. In particular, if I remember correctly, there is no need or benefit to using thumb technique on this instrument because there is no bass body to get in the way. You simply continue playing up the neck using the normal technique.

Thank you so much for the advice. I noticed that playing on a string or two up and down the neck has various merits. I am so used to playing between the 5th and 12th fret on the 6 string basses I own that I neglect playing 1st to 5th.

Chris Minh Doky talks about playin 1st to 5th and then extending down the neck on a double bass and it made me think about the difference in the way the notes sound. (On the NS, as you know, it's obviously different, when playing high or low on the fingerboard.) I never considered much of this till I started to play the fretless and the not so subtle different nuances in the notes. It's obviously different and this has made me realize that playing a lot of notes on anything fretless needs to be done with a lot of thought, and the high notes are not only hard to intonate, it's hard to sound good without sounding like a quasi fretted instrument.
Most times I sounds like crap when I play a lot of notes. I am almost trying to sound fretted on a fretless. My teacher told me to stop playing so many notes as it sounds less and less melodic and more percussive on the fretless.

Finger positioning and moving up and down the neck made me realize the importance of allowing the notes to come out alive. I just began this so it's real challenge to know just where I am on the fingerboard. Combine this with walking bass lines, I could be working on this for the rest of my life trying to master the most elementary skills. These are totally different kind of instruments. NS and fretless electric are kind of similar but at the end of the NS is still a different animal that requires a different thought when playing.

As to a teacher, this is a problem. Traditionalists do not like the instrument. My parents in law are musicians and they are trying to find some double bass players with an open mind. There are traditionalists that are available so worse comes to worse, I'll get in contact with them. But even on the double bass forum, there's quite a lot of mixed feelings about the EUB so I need to be a little cautious about getting an open minded teacher.

Once again thank you for the advice.

 

[Wasnex]

It's obviously different and this has made me realize that playing a lot of notes on anything fretless needs to be done with a lot of thought, and the high notes are not only hard to intonate, it's hard to sound good without sounding like a quasi fretted instrument.

Your onto something important here.

Intonation will come with time and practice...IMHO much quicker if you play only one fretless instrument.

I struggled with intonation when switching between the NSD and string bass. After a few days of practicing exclusively on one, my intonation would become solid again. As a result I tended to avoid playing the NSD in concert band settings where I couldn't clearly hear the pitch and adjust. In big band settings where the bass is much louder and easier to hear, I would routinely switch between electric, string, and NSD bass.

To work on intonation, I used to practice etudes with a tuner that produced a pitch. With most etudes I preferred setting the tuner to produce the 5th of the key, but sometimes the root worked better. Setting a tuner to produce a pitch and playing intervals and scales is also good practice. You can also hum tones while you play if you don't like using the tuner.

I believe this is an area where playing scales on one or two strings will help you, as you must learn to change the spacing between your fingers as you move up and down the neck without thinking about it. For now your hand should always be essentially in the shape of a partially open claw with all fingers curved and held on, or just above the strings. As you play in higher positions, the spacing between the fingers closes; as you play in lower positions, the spacing opens up. Practice slow enough that you can play perfectly in tune. At first you will need to hear the note first and make adjustments, but with practice your hand will become calibrated and your fingers will change spacing automatically. Increase speed as your skill improves.

When you become really advanced, you may consider studying the rules of tempering and practice playing intervals slightly sharp or flat.

Later you will want to work on vibrato; but for now play without it, so your intonation can settle in. Vibrato conceals intonation problems and also uses a different hand structure that is not as stable as the claw.

Don't forget to experiment with the position of your plucking hand as well. The pitch should become less stable as you pluck farther from the bridge.

 

[Whippet]

Your onto something important here.

Intonation will come with time and practice...IMHO much quicker if you play only one fretless instrument.

I struggled with intonation when switching between the NSD and string bass. After a few days of practicing exclusively on one, my intonation would become solid again. As a result I tended to avoid playing the NSD in concert band settings where I couldn't clearly hear the pitch and adjust. In big band settings where the bass is much louder and easier to hear, I would routinely switch between electric, string, and NSD bass.

To work on intonation, I used to practice etudes with a tuner that produced a pitch. With most etudes I preferred setting the tuner to produce the 5th of the key, but sometimes the root worked better. Setting a tuner to produce a pitch and playing intervals and scales is also good practice. You can also hum tones while you play if you don't like using the tuner.

I believe this is an area where playing scales on one or two strings will help you, as you must learn to change the spacing between your fingers as you move up and down the neck without thinking about it. For now your hand should always be essentially in the shape of a partially open claw with all fingers curved and held on, or just above the strings. As you play in higher positions, the spacing between the fingers closes; as you play in lower positions, the spacing opens up. Practice slow enough that you can play perfectly in tune. At first you will need to hear the note first and make adjustments, but with practice your hand will become calibrated and your fingers will change spacing automatically. Increase speed as your skill improves.

When you become really advanced, you may consider studying the rules of tempering and practice playing intervals slightly sharp or flat.

Later you will want to work on vibrato; but for now play without it, so your intonation can settle in. Vibrato conceals intonation problems and also uses a different hand structure that is not as stable as the claw.

Don't forget to experiment with the position of your plucking hand as well. The pitch should become less stable as you pluck farther from the bridge.

Wow ! Thank you so much for all the advice. There is so much information on what you wrote, I copied it and printed it out.

One thing for sure, I will stick to just playing the NSD and put away my other fretless guitars. I never knew about playing towards the bridge made the notes more stable and easier to intonate. I have never even thought about the big band setting and not being able to hear myself, thus making it harder to intonate. Theoretically I could crank up the mids but that has obvious effect on the tone.

I will start practicing with the drone on the 5th or root from now on when I practice my scales and etudes. Muscle memory seems to be a big deal. I always thought that fretless instrument players could just hear the notes until someone told me that hearing isn't enough. You need to hit it correctly and that only comes with correct finger position.

Once again, it comes back to playing in the correct position. Muscles memorizing the correct spacing seems to be the key and it can't be done with my fingers all over the place.

I really need a teacher to iron out the claw finger and positioning. When I bought the EU6, I was told that this isn't an regular electric bass so I need to treat it as a different instrument. But what you wrote really tells me that I know nothing and need a teacher that specializes in double bass who isn't a traditionalist.

Once again thank you for the advice, it's an eye opener and made me realize that there's no short cut. It just seems so easy on youtube, but in reality I need a teacher asap and can't take blow off studying elementary skills.

 

[IamGroot]

My experience with DB was that I had to unlearn all the bad stuff I picked up before I got a teacher. And if you are going to play DB or EUB, please disregard the score above and get yourself over to the DB side of TB asap.

I had a Russian piano teacher who told me my technique was crap as the motion of my hands were not pretty. Russian musical pedagogy is different. Serious though, get a teacher to get you started. You can teach yourself guitar or bass, but not DB.