Am I the only one that obsesses over fingerboard position

[IamGroot]

One nice thing about playing upright per Simandl method is that it teaches you to think in terms of hand position instead of where the fingers are. If your hand goes to the right position and the shifts are done right, getting the notes right becomes much simpler.

I carried this mind set over to the electric bass. For most stuff, position thinking is second nature. But there are things like bebop walking lines and country guitar solos played on bass that sometimes need a careful thinking out before I practice and memorize it. I notate the positions to learn them along with the piece. I started doing this with Mike Richmond's Modern Walking Bass Technique and the habit stuck.

Attached is an example. The roman numerals indicate index finger position. I use one finger per fret usually.

Anybody else do this. Or am I overthinking this????

EDIT: This is Rev 2 (aargh!!)

 

[mambo4]

think in terms of hand position instead of where the fingers are.

I'm no too clear on the distinction there...

I aim for freedom from position and finger-per-fret constraints.

I move my hand as I need to to reach a note. (but maybe that's what you are saying...)

I used to think in terms of the beginner 'boxes' that we all learn but 2 things happened:
1.) I saw Ray Brown and Rocco Prestia live (not at the same time) and was struck by how much their left hands moved , even when they "didn't need to" to me...
2.) I followed "Pac-Man's sure fire scale practice method" which included 5 fret spans (2 whole steps) , impossible with one finger per fret.

These things opened my eyes to the reality that just because we have 4 fingers,
we are not limited or constrained to 4 fret spans / patterns / fingerings.
you are allowed to move your left hand!

 

[IamGroot]

I'm no too clear on the distinction there...

I aim for freedom from position and finger-per-fret constraints.

I move my hand as I need to to reach a note. (but maybe that's what you are saying...)

I used to think in terms of the beginner 'boxes' that we all learn but 2 things happened:
1.) I saw Ray Brown and Rocco Prestia live (not at the same time) and was struck by how much their left hands moved , even when they "didn't need to" to me...
2.) I followed "Pac-Man's sure fire scale practice method" which included 5 fret spans (2 whole steps) , impossible with one finger per fret.

These things opened my eyes to the reality that just because we have 4 fingers,
we are not limited or constrained to 4 fret spans / patterns / fingerings.
you are allowed to move your left hand!

Mambo,
Correct me if Im wrong, but the whole point if this post is how you move your left hand up and down the neck. I.e like Ray Brown. From your last sentence, i am not sure you were clear on what I said.

 

[IamGroot]

Deleted (see post 1 for correct chart)

 

[mambo4]

I suspected we were saying something similar...
That last line is more of a general response to the misconception that one finger per fret means don't move your left hand

 

[IamGroot]

The above is from "Bebop Bass" by Harold Miller. From the asking price of $172 on Amazon, I assume its out of print which is kind of steep for 40 pages. It was definitely worth the $5 retail I paid for it back in the 80s.Keep an eye for it in used book stores.

Mike Richmond's "Modern Walking Bass Technique" should be in every bass players library. Its selling for $36 and is still worth it. Get it while you can!!

https://www.amazon.com/Bebop-Bass-Harold-Miller/dp/0769209688/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Walking-Bass-Technique-Richmond/dp/9995982447

 

[IamGroot]

I suspected we were saying something similar...
That last line is more of a general response to the misconception that one finger per fret means don't move your left hand

Ok. Now I understand. I try to play upright bass lines with an upright bass players sensibilities, except I use 4 fingers when it makes life easier.

 

[fakeneckplate'65]

The above is from "Bebop Bass" by Harold Miller. From the asking price of $172 on Amazon, I assume its out of print which is kind of steep for 40 pages. It was definitely worth the $5 retail I paid for it back in the 80s.Keep an eye for it in used book stores.

Mike Richmond's "Modern Walking Bass Technique" should be in every bass players library. Its selling for $36 and is still worth it. Get it while you can!!

https://www.amazon.com/Bebop-Bass-Harold-Miller/dp/0769209688/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

https://www.amazon.com/Modern-Walking-Bass-Technique-Richmond/dp/9995982447

" Bebop Bass - Harold Miller " appears to be available via pdf on the web..

 

[two fingers]

After 30+ years of playing, I do not obsess over hand position, or finger position.

At this point, my fingers just go where the notes in my head are.

 

[IamGroot]

" Bebop Bass - Harold Miller " appears to be available via pdf on the web.. Link Removed

I would be leery about that site in India as it wants to download software to your computer. Same with the Roscoe Beck pdf from sites in Russia.

 

[petrus61]

After 30+ years of playing, I do not obsess over hand position, or finger position.

At this point, my fingers just go where the notes in my head are.

And you will be henceforth ignored and condescended by those in this thread who find your methods...pedestrian.

 

[IamGroot]

After 30+ years of playing, I do not obsess over hand position, or finger position.

At this point, my fingers just go where the notes in my head are.

That's great. Normally, my fingers will carry me but today I tried sight reading this tune and couldn't pull it off (it clicks at 150 bpm, not screaming fast for a walking line, but it has some "peculiarities". Hence, why I broke out the pencil and marked up the positions.

 

[two fingers]

That's great. Normally, my fingers will carry me but today I tried sight reading this tune and couldn't pull it off (it clicks at 150 bpm, not screaming fast for a walking line, but it has some "peculiarities". Hence, why I broke out the pencil and marked up the positions.

Please don't misunderstand. I want knocking your way of doing it. But your question made me realize I mostly don't think about it these days.

The only reason I might ponder hand position when learning a song is that open notes and first position notes usually are less "round" than the same notes played in the middle of the board. So I'll choose positions based on tone.

But, hey, you got through it and figured out the best way for you. That's all that matters.

 

[IamGroot]

Yeah, I noticed that tone thing also. I guess we need a thread about technique for getting that upright sound. Its as much position and left hand as it is flats, mutes, action etc.

 

[dexter3d]

View attachment 3057044

One nice thing about playing upright per Simandl method is that it teaches you to think in terms of hand position instead of where the fingers are. If your hand goes to the right position and the shifts are done right, getting the notes right becomes much simpler.

I carried this mind set over to the electric bass. For most stuff, position thinking is second nature. But there are things like bebop walking lines and country guitar solos played on bass that sometimes need a careful thinking out before I practice and memorize it. I notate the positions to learn them along with the piece. I started doing this with Mike Richmond's Modern Walking Bass Technique and the habit stuck.

Attached is an example. The roman numerals indicate index finger position. I use one finger per fret usually.

Anybody else do this. Or am I overthinking this????

EDIT: This is Rev 2 (aargh!!)

You can't play bass without thinking about positions, can you. Your position will even dictate what you are going to play. Take for instance Am7-Dm7 transition. If you are at 1-5 fret and start with your pinky, it's likely that you will skip the 1-3-5-5b model, because it's not that comfortable to play in that position. Now, if you were at 5-9 position, you will love using 1-3-5-5b, because it's very comfy, less strings, less stretching, could be played more precisely.

 

[mrcbass]

Absolutely consider positioning when working out lines. I really don't know how you be creative without this consideration. Unless you're just banging out I-Vs all night its essential.

 

[RustyAxe]

At this point, my fingers just go where the notes in my head are.

Right. I'm sure that we're thinking about position, but after a few decades of playing it becomes a background task, and is virtually intuitive.

 

[Whippet]

I have been struggling with finger board position. After taking up the book Walking Basslines by Ed Friedland, it's literally eaten up months of my practice time.

The biggest problem for me is that the book is written for 4 string bass and playing it on a 5 or 6 string gives way too many options on finger positions.

I am still working on this but I have noticed that moving my hand (instead of stretching) to reach the notes as in one finger per fret seems to be the answer. Stretching an extra one or sometimes 2 frets seems to make it way too complicated. I end up not knowing where I am because the approach notes just don't seem to lead to the chords.

It's really confusing but the good thing is, the confusion has made me learn the notes. I now know the fret and finger board pretty well. Even my NS design EU6 is starting to become less intimidating.

EDIT. I just reread what I wrote, and even what I wrote sounds confusing like the finger position. LOL

 

[mrcbass]

playing it on a 5 or 6 string gives way too many options on finger positions.

This is a benefit not a curse! For me, having additional positions to choose from is a far more valuable benefit of the 5+ string option than the additional 5-10 notes they bring. Don't get me wrong, I like having the low B, but being able to move 1st fret stuff up to the 5th fret (for example), is huge.

 

[IamGroot]

I have been struggling with finger board position. After taking up the book Walking Basslines by Ed Friedland, it's literally eaten up months of my practice time.

The biggest problem for me is that the book is written for 4 string bass and playing it on a 5 or 6 string gives way too many options on finger positions.

I am still working on this but I have noticed that moving my hand (instead of stretching) to reach the notes as in one finger per fret seems to be the answer. Stretching an extra one or sometimes 2 frets seems to make it way too complicated. I end up not knowing where I am because the approach notes just don't seem to lead to the chords.

It's really confusing but the good thing is, the confusion has made me learn the notes. I now know the fret and finger board pretty well. Even my NS design EU6 is starting to become less intimidating.

EDIT. I just reread what I wrote, and even what I wrote sounds confusing like the finger position. LOL

Thanks for your thoughts. Are you playing electric or upright or both?

If you are playing electric, figure out the playing positions that work for you best, mark up the sheet music and master that option. If you have other fingering (position) options for 5 or 6 string, do a markup on a separate sheet. Once you set the positions, the fingering is locked down.

I make all my markups in pencil to allow for future improved fingerings.

On electric, my working box is 4 with an occasional stretch of the pinky. Otherwise, i shift.

On. Upright my working box is 3 as per Simandl with some pivoting. Higher position go to thumb.