amateur sound guy sounded better than the pro . . . ?

[morgansterne]

I play keys and rhythm guitar in a five piece band (used to be the bass player . . . long story). We used to run our own sound but after about four years of gigs we get paid enough to hire it out. Our usual guy has solid gear -- allen and heath board with outboard fx and compressors, huge subs and good sounding tops. He scales down for smaller and up for bigger gigs.
We've done many gigs with him at this point, and gotten many compliments.
Due to some miscommunication, he can't do our october gigs. I play bass in another band and begged that drummer to come in with his PA (behringer xr18, two behr subs and 10" tops, two powered monitors) and run sound for us. He was very reluctant as he's never used the system for anything except his own band, but he agreed.
Everything went well with him despite his protests that he didn't really know what he was doing. He had a headset mic routed only to our monitors for talkback, something our Pro has never bothered with. Several people said we sounded better than usual. the only problem was a bit of mysterious feedback at times which I think was caused by our drummer's very ringy kick drum. A longtime fan and friend said it was the first time he'd ever been able to really hear our background vocals (which are a key component of what we do!), and the lead guitar was finally not too loud.

No one could possibly criticize our usual pro's dedication to his job -- he shows up early and leaves late, all for 100-150 bucks depending on the gig. He brings in vocal echoes on certain songs where they belong. But maybe it's time for us to give someone else a chance -- we have a gig on friday that my drummer friend can't do, and we'll have to run our own sound for the first time in maybe two years! could be a train wreck.

 

[s0c9]

Has your regular guy run sound for you at this venue before?
I've done many gigs over the years - on both sides of the stage - where both I and the band came away thinking we sounded awesome that night.. yet had folks give us the old "something was not quite right/missing tonight!" feedback.
I've also had the opposite happen.. we think it was dreadful but get compliments out the wazoo!
My point.. try both again in varying venues, and go with the average best.. It might have been beginners luck? idk!

 

[morgansterne]

Actually our Pro has never run sound for us indoors at this venue. They have a really nice outdoor stage and he's run sound there many times (for us and quite a few others).
weather was around 60 degrees and rainy, so no outdoors for us.

 

[EastCoastThump]

There's a lot to be said for regularly recording the house sound at your gigs. That way, you and your FOH mixer have a concrete way to judge and improve the band's sound.

 

[4Mal]

Is your regular guy a player ? Everybody who touches the board in my sound company is a player with years of stage experience. Key concept for me... And of course, having the gear is way different than having ears. And then there are rooms. Some sound great with little effort. Some are a struggle to get anything... And then there is beginners luck... Can drummer boy do it twice in a row.

As a bass player I have good nights and well not so good. As a sound guy, well dang but we are all human.

And yep a room recording for consistency check. Wireless rig so you can get out front for a reality check.

And finally... Do you guys discuss your sound goals with the sound guy ? Des he know the guitar is considered too loud ? The back ground vocals are too far back. Do you guys use mic technique to back off or come up as you do backing vocals? Does the guitarist make good use of dynamics? Come up for parts, go back down ? Not saying this is the case in your band but dynamics are overlooked in a lot of bands. As a sound guy, I'll do what I can but dang there is only so much fader riding I can do...

Thought off the top of my head...

 

[morgansterne]

Our guitarist is a struggle to work with for live sound, both vocals and guitar. He changes his volume as the night goes on, he comes in sometimes quiet and sometimes loud on harmony vocals, and at unpredictable times. He's a heck of a guitar player so we put up with it even after our years of discussions have really failed to bring consistent results in that dept.
We've never really discussed our sound goals with our Pro guy, it was really by accident that we ended up with him on a consistent basis. Sounds like we should.
I appreciate the inputs!

 

[Johnny Crab]

We once gave a guy a chance because he had worked with me on REPAIRS and keeping things running(back in the 70's~80's). Decades of hard work later, he's done FOH for Heart and now is with Journey. He was a rookie who bettered the "pros" at the time he started.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Sometimes a new pair of ears come with a new perspective. Part of that new perspective may be that he isn't very familiar with the band & what's going on so he's just concentrating on the basics of "sounding good". Somebody that's more familiar may be adding more & more "stuff" to the mix, incrementally over time. At some point "more" can become "too much" of just about anything.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Less kickdrum thanks to the feedback perhaps?
Less monitors on stage.

 

[BoogieZK]

Pro PA system with a Pro soundguy which is not deaf, and want a good sound, is pretty good.

Sziget festival in Hungary, ONE sound engineer by stage, the same for all bands of each nights.
The sound is perfect! 110dBspl max, no earplugs needed.

I went from Fear Factory to Mika, The 69 eyes, Children of Bodom, Madness, Nina Hagen, Deadmou5e.
Everything was excellent.

 

[s0c9]

Our guitarist is a struggle to work with for live sound, both vocals and guitar. He changes his volume as the night goes on, he comes in sometimes quiet and sometimes loud on harmony vocals, and at unpredictable times.

This is a common problem for lead guitar players.. I used to work with one just like. They simply have no concept of "team" and what it takes to "blend" since that's not the role of the lead guitar player, right? I never believed it was a deliberate "more me" efffort (tho' it might be for some ), but a mental block on the overall sound!
In the years I've both run sound and played on-stage, I've taken a few of the guitar players out to see other bands when we weren't playing.
It was easy to get them to go see "such and such" a band, to hear what they played and what worked.
The goal being (since I had usually heard these bands) to pick those with guitarists who blended. In other words, some can't be told, but have to be shown, and think it was their conclusion!
My guys got the picture pretty quickly!!