Ambient, drone, sustain, layering....

[Vlad5]

Hey all.

Been lurking in the Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread for a few days, reading over the last couple years of posts there, and I am a bit overwhelmed (though very amused and impressed with what I've read, cheers).

Maybe you all can help me find an effect pedal to get me started in drone/ambient/sonic saturation.
Think Sunn O))) with one bass guitar as a starting point, getting spacey and weird from there (hopefully).

I do understand Sunn's setup, and no, I do not intend on using 3 Sunn model T's, 2 Ampeg SVT's, or any other wall of rented full stacks run in parallel. Just want to get started with what I have into my pre existing PA and/or amp/cab setup. Sunn O))) is just a starting point, not the end point here.

Basically I'm looking for a sustain effect to put towards the end of my board to hold tones I create whilst I play over it, and maybe layer more sustained tones for a spacey wall of sound thing. Uh, but controlled... I really lack the words to describe this, so any suggestions are appreciated.

My pedal board signal chain is:
in > filter > hard clip distortion > drive > low gain fuzz > hi gain fuzz > optical phaser > ota phaser > multi-band eq > cab sim > delay/reverb > looper/phrase sampler > out

I do not have all these on at once. I use a few at a time together to create various textures and tones.

I will be getting a hp/lp filter soon too, to be placed just before the cab sim (maybe replacing it entirely).

What do I need to add to create a controllable/selectable ambient sustain with the above?
Or do I already have it now and not know it yet?

I've been reading up on the EHX Super Ego+, but I gotta say, I have never been happy with EHX stuff, sound quality/build quality wise. Though I have always been impressed with their creativity.
Had a Freeze for a minute, but again, sound quality was meh.
Had a Ditto Looper too, but upgraded to a Jam Man Solo, which I use for extended phrase layering.
Kinda clunky using it for drone-as-you-go effect though, I'm thinking.
Looking at the Gamechanger Audio Plus Pedal too, but it may be a bit much to start with, price and feature wise.
Dispatch Master v2 with its sample/hold feature? I currently have a v1 on my board now, no sample/hold feature though.
Proteus v2 also has sample/hold, but that would go first in the chain, and is a filter. Still cool though.

Thoughts?

Thank you, hope this isn't all jiberesh.

 

[Bob_Ross]

What do I need to add to create a controllable/selectable ambient sustain with the above?
Or do I already have it now and not know it yet?

The "controllable/selectable" part of your request has me thinking that you don't necessarily need additional gizmos (although another looper/phrase sampler couldn't hurt*) but rather you need a way to independently feed signal into your existing looper/phrase sampler...and just as easily choose not to be feeding the loops with other material you are playing/generating. While that sounds like simply stepping on the Record/Overdub switch at the right moments, I find it's more useful and versatile to have a signal path that emulates the Aux Send on a mixing console, with a volume pedal acting as the Send to the looper. That way you can leave the looper in Record/Overdub mode for long(er) stretches of time while adding bits and pieces of the stuff you're playing to the background ambience at varying levels. For even more versatility, have the looper output(s) going to a separate amp...ideally, with another volume pedal on its output.


*says the guy who rarely has fewer than three looper/phrase samplers running concurrently, and often twice that number

 

[Vlad5]

^^^^ Interesting....

I have one mono output signal, so all this would have to be done on my pedalboard, then sent out to FOH, headphones, amp, whatever.
Even when I split my output, all sources get the same end result from my effects board.

Multiple loops....hmm.
Perhaps sticking a Ditto looper on a parallel out with the Jam Man, and using separate volume pedals for each.
I have a Badger Schism that could do this. 2 loops, plus 1 clean channel = 3 outs blended into one.
I never thought to put this at the end of my signal chain. Its always been first, blending dirt pedals.

Interesting....

Thanks Bob!

 

[Vlad5]

...and this looks intersting too.

TC Electronic Infinite

Have had mixed experience with TC stuff, but this gets good reviews.
idk...maybe?

 

[SteveCS]

What do I need to add to create a controllable/selectable ambient sustain with the above?
Or do I already have it now and not know it yet?

I've been reading up on the EHX Super Ego+, but I gotta say, I have never been happy with EHX stuff, sound quality/build quality wise.

I think there are two things.

Firstly I think you really do need to consider one of either the SuperEgo (or SuperEgo+) or the TC Infinite Sustainer. I have the basic SuperEgo, which I got after trying the Freeze and realising it did not have the flexibility to be anything other than a novelty. I really like the SE, and having used it for many years now I don't see the point of the SE+. The built-in effects are only one at a time and in most instances you will want to add your own downstream effects patches that will almost certainly require more than one thing - EQ, distortion, pitch/harmonisation and maybe even multiple modulations - to create rich layers. One at a time really won't 'cut the mustard', IME. For my downstream effects I use a Zoom MS-50G, but any compact multi will do the job.

Secondly, I really do think that some method of parallel processing is required. I do this with an EHX Tri-Parallel mixer, then cut all 'dry' at the SE output. The parallel processing element was a real game-changer and made the whole thing so much easier

Here it is all together on the board - I have since added a TC Spectracomp (with homegrown toneprint) to hold it all together at the output:

As a 'system' it looks like this:

 

[Vlad5]

Thanks Steve!
That is excellent advice, made even more so in that I was thinking the same thing last night.

I have a Badger Schism XV that has been modded by Badger for bass (more full range I think). I've had it sitting around unused for a while since i'm gain stacking everything these days.

but yeah, for this discussion's purpose, it has been on my mind again.

I'll keep looking out for deals on the Super Ego and Infinite.

Getting some replacement effects for the Hyperdrive I have, to free up board space today.

Thanks again!

 

[HelpImaRock]

I think you're looking for the SuperEgo+.

 

[Vlad5]

Yeah. Just dont need the effects (i have, like, so many already).
Though the extra switches/jacks are super tempting.
Thinking....

 

[Vlad5]

For some more context, here is what I currently have to work with.
Everything is unhooked cus I'm still figuring out my new chain...

Note that the other JamMan Solo is my friends, though she has an FM3 that could loop, I prob wont take it from her since we link both of ours together sometimes for synching loops. Not very often though.

Also I have a Source Audio expression pedal and EB volume pedal too, not shown.

 

[Vlad5]

The Bottom Feeder will most likely go since I barely use it.
The Hyperdrive will (hopefully) be replaced by an EWS Stormy Drive and EWS BMC, both micro pedals.
The Bass Box may be replaced by a Broughton RFE next week.
Thus freeing up more room.
I really don't want a bigger board, but... you know.

 

[SteveCS]

...
I'll keep looking out for deals on the Super Ego and Infinite.
...

SuperEgo seems to hold up well in the used market. The Infinite is more of an unknown quantity but significantly cheaper new. Just one thing to note - if (when!) you go down the parallel processing route with the Infinite you will need the TonePrint editor to dial out your Dry signal from the Infinite as there is no 'balance' control out of the box - you can only control the 'effect' level against a unity gain on the dry. That then forces you into using the F/X loop to add stuff to the sustained element. In my setup I don't need to use the SE F/X loop because there is no dry in the output mix to begin with.

 

[SteveCS]

...
I have never been happy with EHX stuff, sound quality/build quality wise. Though I have always been impressed with their creativity.
Had a Freeze for a minute, but again, sound quality was meh.
...

Just a quick 'oh yeah' on the sound quality of the Freeze/SE types. What comes out is a very short looped sample of what is going in, and very much depends on exactly when you hit the pedal. It is actually possible to synchronise a percussive strike with the footswitch press and create a fast pulsating 'sustain'. Likewise it is also possible to capture a whole bunch of fret clank or finger noise, which can sound cool or really poor, but either way it's a crap-shoot both in how the capture turns out and whether or not you can do it again. For best results it is better to allow things to stabilise for a short while before hitting the button. My experience is that's the nature of the beast and no reflection on EHX, TC or anyone else.

 

[Naigewron]

The key for me to freeze-type pedals and not making them sound "digital" is to run them into a 100% wet reverb. This makes a massive, lush synth pad, instead of the sound of someone holding down a key on a cheap Casio keyboard.

I don't have an example video where I do this on bass, but here's one where I play guitar. You can hear that the drone chord just sounds huge and lush behind the lead guitar:



All effects are from a Line6 HX Effects, with their model of the EHX Freeze and a big hall reverb

 

[Vlad5]

Just purchased a TCE Infinite, used in 'mint' condition. Saved a few bucks.
Considering the EHX Superego too... just for comparison.

The key for me to freeze-type pedals and not making them sound "digital" is to run them into a 100% wet reverb. This makes a massive, lush synth pad, instead of the sound of someone holding down a key on a cheap Casio keyboard.

I don't have an example video where I do this on bass, but here's one where I play guitar. You can hear that the drone chord just sounds huge and lush behind the lead guitar:

All effects are from a Line6 HX Effects, with their model of the EHX Freeze and a big hall reverb

Yeah I fully intend on putting a Dispatch Master in the Infinite's loop, or in the loop the Infinite is going into.
I know the new version of the DM has a sample hold feature, but I'm not gonna get a new one just yet.
Gotta try this setup first.

 

[HelpImaRock]

Yeah. Just dont need the effects (i have, like, so many already).
Though the extra switches/jacks are super tempting.
Thinking....

The effects are kinda cheesy. I like the tremolo, detune, and pitch the best. The upgrade over the regular SuperEgo and Freeze are the expanded controls and the sustain mode, especially if you're into layering.

 

[Vlad5]

Good to know, thank you!

 

[BassBrass]

The effects are kinda cheesy. I like the tremolo, detune, and pitch the best. The upgrade over the regular SuperEgo and Freeze are the expanded controls and the sustain mode, especially if you're into layering.

The regular superego has a send/return and you can put much better effects in it than the superego+ has on board (I like the filter to make a lo fi sound, don't like the phaser etc) Outboard I use a Rainbow Machine for a changing chorus, and also a Bananana synth or a shimmer verb. The Superego+ has more foot control.

 

[HelpImaRock]

The regular superego has a send/return and you can put much better effects in it than the superego+ has on board (I like the filter to make a lo fi sound, don't like the phaser etc) Outboard I use a Rainbow Machine for a changing chorus, and also a Bananana synth or a shimmer verb. The Superego+ has more foot control.

The Plus has that too. You're not locked into the onboard effects.

 

[el murdoque]

Casting an oddball here:
Hologram Electronics Microcosm.

It's all you look for and a LOT more, but it's kind of hard to control.
Creating a wall of sound with ambient goodness is a matter of seconds, but using it on point with a clear goal is a bit like shooting a hummingbird with a 12 gauge shotgun. It surely gets the job done, but it lacks precision.

At its core it's just a fancy delay with a bit of reverb and a phrase looper.
The looper is able to quantify loops, which is a good help for using it live.

You can select one of the engines at random, then twist the knobs a bit and you got something useful. This has a bit of an ambient jam session character. You feel like there's someone else bringing their input into the session, even though you're alone in the room.

 

[BassBrass]

The Plus has that too. You're not locked into the onboard effects.

Wouldn't it be funny if your were "locked into the onboard effects" only... Yes I left out that detail wondering if anyone needed me to write that too. There are some choices with EH that do lock you into settings, like the vibrato on the Mel9 "cello". The SE+ takes up more space on the board, that's the main issue in my opinion.