American Dream or Great Depression?

[txbasschik]

I think its getting worse...not, like, *awful* yet, but if we don't fix it, we'll get to "awful".

People are living with less and less. No one is taking a vacation this year...gas costs too much. We're eating, and making the bills, but we do with fewer "things", like most of our friends. We've never been big spenders on, you know..."stuff". But we're cutting back even more, now.

Some of our friends have gone in together on homes...multiple families...so they can make their ends and keep the kids fed. I know lots of adults who have no kids, etc., but can't afford to live on their own, either. Lots and lots of people getting rent houses and then having a scad of roommates. 50-somethings, living like they did in college, because their dollars just do not go that far anymore.

Not terrible yet, but not good, either.

Cherie

 

[jomahu]

it's interesting to see this play out in the u.s. coming from what most would deem to be a 'third world country,' a lot of the concessions i hear people complaining about (not here on TB, but in articles i've read) is pretty much standard fare for the rest of the world.

 

[hbarcat]

1) The government LOVES to give away food stamps. They actually advertise their availability so that more people will use them, and changing eligibility requirements make it easier to get them. I qualify for food stamps though I work a full time job at much more than minimum wage.

2) The definition of the American dream has changed over the decades so that now it means that many citizens feel entitiled to live beyond their ability to pay for the luxuries they purchase and routinely buy everything on credit amounts that are beyond what they make. OF COURSE, we're heading for some tough economic times when the bills for this extravagant living all come due.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well - coming from the UK where we have had 3 - 4 million unemployed in the worse days - 28 million people relying on government aid for food - just seems incredible to me!!

 

[txbasschik]

it's interesting to see this play out in the u.s. coming from what most would deem to be a 'third world country,' a lot of the concessions i hear people complaining about (not here on TB, but in articles i've read) is pretty much standard fare for the rest of the world.

In the other American Dream thread, I said that soon the Dream would be "enough to eat, running water, and electricity".

Much like in many other countries.

Some parts of the U.S. are doing a lot worse than others. I feel very badly for the folks in the Midwest. They were hit first, and hardest, by this economic mess. If things get worse, it may be the very worst for them.

Texas isn't too bad, yet. We've lost a lot of our Border-town manufacturing to Mexico because of mudder-ruttin', gorram, freakin' NAFTA. The CenTex hi-tech firms are shaky. Many farms and ranches are feeling the pinch. But still...things are lots better here than in other places.

I get on my knees and thank God every day that we have a fixed-rate mortgage.

Cherie

 

[Marlat]

Well - coming from the UK where we have had 3 - 4 million unemployed in the worse days - 28 million people relying on government aid for food - just seems incredible to me!!

You'd have to adjust for population (6x the UK population in the US) and then consider that not all people who get food stamps are necessarily "unemployed". They could be full time students and just taking advantage of a government program. Not saying that its not a bad situation - just that the comparison isn't really apples to apples.

 

[txbasschik]

1) The government LOVES to give away food stamps. They actually advertise their availability so that more people will use them, and changing eligibility requirements make it easier to get them. I qualify for food stamps though I work a full time job at much more than minimum wage.

2) The definition of the American dream has changed over the decades so that now it means that many citizens feel entitiled to live beyond their ability to pay for the luxuries they purchase and routinely buy everything on credit amounts that are beyond what they make. OF COURSE, we're heading for some tough economic times when the bills for this extravagant living all come due.

All that credit spending is a big reason why we're having trouble now, IMO.

My husband likes to have a credit card, but not me. If I can't pay for it right then and there, I won't buy it. Period.

And now we owe money on his lawn tractor, because *he failed to make the payments*!!! No reason other than he was too lazy to create an online account, or drive to the store and make a payment, or pay the stupid bill. I refuse to pay it for him. I don't use that tractor, and I didn't want him to buy it. I told him I would *never* make a payment on it, that it was his job.

So...he's gotten us into debt again. He did it before to the tune of a LARGE sum, and now we owe freakin' again.

Yes, I'm real mad. If he couldn't wait and save up the money, why buy something that costs a danged-thousand-dollars? That's a lot of money!!!~

People buy a car every bloody year and they buy a huge plasma tv and all kind of crap. And then can't pay for it. And they wonder why the economy's messed up.

Its not credit overspending alone that's the trouble, but it sure doesn't help.

Cherie

 

[jwbassman]

I think that we're in for a tough time ahead in the US. The effect of the rising fuels costs are just now starting to trickle down into everything. Hence the high food costs. Which effects the poor the most. The fact of the matter is that everyone has to eat and that hits the ones with the least amount of money the most. You can cut out a lot of luxuries, but you can't cut out food.

I don't know if we will hit "great depression" status, but the economy is definately in a slow down. The stock market is in a period of adjustment, the fed is slashing rates, which will eventually help to put the US dollar decline in check. American's will see inflation, but we'll also see our products start to become more competitive on the global market, which in turn will help with the trade deficit.

But short term Americans will need to tighten the belt on spending.

On the brighter side of things, the current market yields the potential for great buying opportunities. So now is the time for long term investors to buy.

 

[txbasschik]

You'd have to adjust for population (6x the UK population in the US) and then consider that not all people who get food stamps are necessarily "unemployed". They could be full time students and just taking advantage of a government program. Not saying that its not a bad situation - just that the comparison isn't really apples to apples.

I've seen some folks just flat take advantage of the program. But most of the food stampers I know are either over 50 and underemployed, or they have kids and they're underemployed. They're all working...the dollar just doesn't buy what it used to.

Cherie

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

You'd have to adjust for population (6x the UK population in the US) and then consider that not all people who get food stamps are necessarily "unemployed". They could be full time students and just taking advantage of a government program. Not saying that its not a bad situation - just that the comparison isn't really apples to apples.

I wasn't saying it was a comparison - just that it's hard to grasp the scale of this and that we always think of the "Amercian Dream" and don't imagine that the wealthiest country in the world can have such a problem...?

 

[Phalex]

All that credit spending is a big reason why we're having trouble now, IMO.

My husband likes to have a credit card, but not me. If I can't pay for it right then and there, I won't buy it. Period.

And now we owe money on his lawn tractor, because *he failed to make the payments*!!! No reason other than he was too lazy to create an online account, or drive to the store and make a payment, or pay the stupid bill. I refuse to pay it for him. I don't use that tractor, and I didn't want him to buy it. I told him I would *never* make a payment on it, that it was his job.

So...he's gotten us into debt again. He did it before to the tune of a LARGE sum, and now we owe freakin' again.

Yes, I'm real mad. If he couldn't wait and save up the money, why buy something that costs a danged-thousand-dollars? That's a lot of money!!!~

People buy a car every bloody year and they buy a huge plasma tv and all kind of crap. And then can't pay for it. And they wonder why the economy's messed up.

Its not credit overspending alone that's the trouble, but it sure doesn't help.

Cherie

I think I must have married your sister Cherie!

I agree 100%. Living within one's means isn't all that glamorous, but it sure is nice to be able to buy food and bass strings when you need em!

 

[Marlat]

I wasn't saying it was a comparison - just that it's hard to grasp the scale of this and that we always think of the "Amercian Dream" and don't imagine that the wealthiest country in the world can have such a problem...?

Really, I never doubted that the situation in the US and Western style systems of economics generally would lead to the inevitable widening of the gap between rich and poor. Its the way the system is set up - to effectively generate the problem that exists now. That is the free market.

 

[jwbassman]

I wasn't saying it was a comparison - just that it's hard to grasp the scale of this and that we always think of the "Amercian Dream" and don't imagine that the wealthiest country in the world can have such a problem...?

Most of the "Wealth" that you speak of is held by about 1% of the population. Per Capita Income is really what you need to look at. The US is 6th per capita. Luxembourg is 1st. Ireland is acutally ahead of the US in the 5th spot and the UK is 21st.

 

[JonathanD]

Not political?
Well, I will only state what I can see to be "facts".
The FED is gaining power by taking away checks and balances on its abilities.
We print more money and lower interest rates which weakens the dollar.
Just like J.P. Morgan paid our debt after the last depression there is talk of it happening again.

according to CNN(if you trust the news?), 200 banks are expected to foreclose in the next year.

I don't know. Maybe we will just cease being so rich that we can afford to have more than 1 bass. And maybe that bass will not cost more than the yearly wages of a worker
in another country.

 

[Fool]

well the important thing to some people in life is that they get the big houses, expensive products, TV, basses, cars etc.
And those people will do everything in their personal power to materialize their every desire. ALL over a WANT. I wonder how some of those people feel with there objects of greed as other humans suffer? Oh well what ever. The american dream is an illusion.
a few words that describe some BS fantasy people have. I hope it all falls down, then all the people will overstand just how much all your precious valuables really matter on this great earth.

As long as the sheeple buy into the propaganda out there, I think the economic decline will gradually peak. And we may just see another Depression much like the one of the 1930s. To bad though, if enough people cared we could stop EVERYTHING.
But that would be a dream in itself.

 

[69nites]

I wasn't saying it was a comparison - just that it's hard to grasp the scale of this and that we always think of the "Amercian Dream" and don't imagine that the wealthiest country in the world can have such a problem...?

you know how I said government enabling the useless? this is what I'm refering to.

I know a girl who gets food stamps but drives a very nice lexus.

The rapper "old dirty basterd" was colecting wellfare while he was still selling records like crazy.

Our government enables people to not work even when there are many jobs available.

I came from a poor household. The worst conditions immaginable in america. I was even homeless for periods of my childhood. it's not hard to make more than enough money to survive simply by learning a trade. Low income people can go to college for free. The US government will buy your books for you as well. You really have to TRY to be poor in America.

the short of it people abuse government aid very few actually need it.

 

[jwbassman]

you know how I said government enabling the useless? this is what I'm refering to.

I know a girl who gets food stamps but drives a very nice lexus.

The rapper "old dirty basterd" was colecting wellfare while he was still selling records like crazy.

Our government enables people to not work even when there are many jobs available.

I came from a poor household. The worst conditions immaginable in america. I was even homeless for periods of my childhood. it's not hard to make more than enough money to survive simply by learning a trade. Low income people can go to college for free. The US government will buy your books for you as well. You really have to TRY to be poor in America.

the short of it people abuse government aid very few actually need it.

1+

Sometimes people in the US seem to feel a sense of entitlement. Like "I deserve this". The systems we have in place in the US a great. We need welfare, we need food stamps, etc.

But they all need reform. Big time.

 

[Mr. Black]

Just finishing up 4 weeks of a 7-12 work schedule.....

Fixed mortgage house payment. Bought it 2 years ago.

ALMOST got all my credit cards paid off from required expenses from buying the house & getting married last year.

Yeah, theres a pinch @ the gas pumps and the grocery store but it's not that bad. We've just always watched our expenses. The biggest TV in my home is 27". I have a brand new truck, but sometimes I can charge for it at work.

Whatever, theres work everywhere in my industry. Everyones actually so shorthanded that I could make 3 times as much on the road. But, my old lady wants me home.

I really don't think it's as bad as the media is putting out to be. I thinks it's more of a "watch your a$$" kinda thing. This is all IME of course. I really feel for those who have been hit hard by this.... I couldn't imagine losing my home especially after I busted my balls trying to get it.

I don't know..... I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[FL Knifemaker]

you know how I said government enabling the useless? this is what I'm refering to.

I know a girl who gets food stamps but drives a very nice lexus.

The rapper "old dirty basterd" was colecting wellfare while he was still selling records like crazy.

Our government enables people to not work even when there are many jobs available.

I came from a poor household. The worst conditions immaginable in america. I was even homeless for periods of my childhood. it's not hard to make more than enough money to survive simply by learning a trade. Low income people can go to college for free. The US government will buy your books for you as well. You really have to TRY to be poor in America.

the short of it people abuse government aid very few actually need it.

A BIG +1 Just look at the Mexicans and Cubans that land here in Florida. Even illegally they work hard and do well for themselves with no education, ability to speak english or a financial head start.

 

[stratovani]

My oldest son is a 3rd year Chemistry student at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, graduating next year. He'll be entering the work force with over $100K in student loans to pay back. Granted, he'll be earning much, much more than I ever did, but still, what a way to begin a career. That's the way things are in America these days, seems like you have to fall behind to get ahead!