American Dream or Great Depression?

[Illbay]

All I can do is the little things, and abide by my own morality, and resist what I see as wrong in society as much as possible.

That's called "living in a free society."

Sometimes you need to stop and think that maybe if "the system" is bigger than you are, it's because it represents the distinctly majority view.

That doesn't stop you from thinking, feeling, speaking and writing whatever you want, but you cannot dictate your enlightened views to the majority.

 

[MakiSupaStar]

Ayup. Very sad, but very true.

When I was young, I was full of political and moral fire, and I believed that if enough people acted on that same fire, we'd change things.

But the system has beaten me. Its just too big. All I can do is the little things, and abide by my own morality, and resist what I see as wrong in society as much as possible.

It seems to be that way for everyone. We do what we can, but as you age, you can't go around angry all the time. It wears you out. Just do what we can, every day. That's it.

Cherie

Yep, and I would have called the older version of ourselves haters for hating too. But the truth be told, all the little things I do to rebel go unnoticed. One of the first things I had to do was cut my dreads. I would go and interview for a job and it would turn into a discussion about my hair. If I'm applying for a job I want to talk about my skills not my hair. So I shaved them. Then the same thing happened with my goat which was really long. Then I also discovered the power of networking. If you're a dick to someone make sure that someone doesn't become your boss. One of the first things I did was become dependable. If I tell someone I'll be somewhere, I'll be there. If I tell someone I'll do something for them, I do it. I can still just crash on the couch of a buddy if I didn't have a place to live or whatever, but I'd like to save those favors from my buddies for when I really need them. I'd like to keep my buddies as friends right now.

 

[jomahu]

i will say that if you have the power of the vote, use it. that's a right and a privilege. even if you think it does nothing, use it, 'cause a lot of us can't. regardless of who you vote for, at least be a part of the process.

as far as the needs of the majority - after seeing vp cheney blatantly and publicly disregard the opinions of about 2/3 of the population (yes, grain of salt and all that), i doubt that the current adminstration really cares about what people think. and if you don't use your power of democratic elections, then...well, it just propagates the issue further.
at the end of the day, we're supposed to run the gov't and the economy. they're not supposed to run us.

fwiw, this is a non-partisan statement, since i don't have the right to vote.

 

[txbasschik]

i will say that if you have the power of the vote, use it. that's a right and a privilege. even if you think it does nothing, use it, 'cause a lot of us can't. regardless of who you vote for, at least be a part of the process.

as far as the needs of the majority - after seeing vp cheney blatantly and publicly disregard the opinions of about 2/3 of the population (yes, grain of salt and all that), i doubt that the current adminstration really cares about what people think. and if you don't use your power of democratic elections, then...well, it just propagates the issue further.
at the end of the day, we're supposed to run the gov't and the economy. they're not supposed to run us.

fwiw, this is a non-partisan statement, since i don't have the right to vote.

Voter apathy is a big part of the problem. People become disillusioned because they see an administration that totally disregards the wishes of the people, or they just feel that they never get anything they'd like for this country out of any politician. They stop voting. So, the only people voting are the partisan voters and those who vote based on sound-bites about "change" and that kind of nonsense.

So...we get what we pay for, as the saying goes. We get very narrow candidates, because they are elected by a very narrow segment of the population.

We're like drops of water. By ourselves, we might not soak a ladybug. But put all those drops together, and they make a flood. We need to make a flood.

Cherie

 

[jive1]

i guess it all depends on the context. if comparing the US to the world (which is a big place), things are alrite. if comparing the US to the US, then....i dunno, it's bad and getting worse for a lot of people.

So which great US are you comparing today's America to?

The 1930s America that was facing the greatest depression in it's history?

Or the 1940s America that was in a war that cost thousands of lives, and took years to rebuild from?

Or the 1950s America where there was a chicken in every pot and racism, sexism, and a bunch of other "isms" running rampant?

Or the 1960s America where we were in the height of a cold war, and involved in a war that cost many lives and divided a nation during an economic recession?

Or the 1970s America where manufacturing started to move overseas and many Americans lost their jobs?

Or the 1980s America where we had double digit interest rates that made home ownership difficult, and the US had very high crime rates?

Or the 1990s where we saw the tech market crash, causing unemployment, the close of businesses, and investment losses for many?

What I'm getting at is that every era in a nation's history has good times and bad going on, and many times simultaneously. Even though I'm an old guy, sometimes I get sick of talk of "the good old days". The problem is that we tend forget the bad when we talk about the "good ol days" even though it was there.

 

[jomahu]

jive, since you put it that way, now seems to be a bad combination of the entire 20th century.

 

[jive1]

Again, we are all negative about the economy now because of the media and it's an election year. The real GDP growth in the US economy was 3.2%. Not great, but better than most of the western countries and close to the average over the last 20 years. It's better than in 2003 (2.45%) and 2004 (3.1%). In 2003 and 2004 we were not all running around like Chicken Littles worrying about a recession or depression.

People need to do a little research a stop listening to CNN, MSNBC, ABC, and the politicians.

Agreed.

I, for one, refuse to give in to the fear mongers. I'm not gonna let people who are looking for a job (political candidates) or a network who's main goal is to sell advertising space determine my financial outlook.

This country has had good times and bad times, and I find that it's the level-headed optimists that usually come out ahead in the long run. Investment and entrepreneurship are driven by optimism. Pessimism just keeps you where you are.

 

[mike_v_s]

Voter apathy is a big part of the problem. People become disillusioned because they see an administration that totally disregards the wishes of the people, or they just feel that they never get anything they'd like for this country out of any politician. They stop voting. So, the only people voting are the partisan voters and those who vote based on sound-bites about "change" and that kind of nonsense.

So...we get what we pay for, as the saying goes. We get very narrow candidates, because they are elected by a very narrow segment of the population.

We're like drops of water. By ourselves, we might not soak a ladybug. But put all those drops together, and they make a flood. We need to make a flood.

Cherie

SNL did a very good job describing this after Clinton won his second term. The guy playing him started out by thanking the voters for their decision. Then he mentioned that he had won a little over 50% of the popular vote (I'm too lazy to research figures). He went on to point out that, out of the eligible voters in the US, only about half of those voted. He further reduced the vote by people who actually voted for him, as opposed to against his opponent. He continued with a a few other instances, eventually thanking roughly 8% of the population for wanting him as president.

It was a parody, obviously, but it underscored the fact that pretty much anyone, regardless of party, elected as president is really elected by default more massive support from the nation.

It's be nice to see more people get active, but I doubt we'll see a flood. I won't mention any names, but I'm encouraged when a candidate brings in new voters. There are huge segments of our population that don't vote and if even a small percantage of them enter the fray, at least we can say our elected leaders are a bit more "elected".

Mike

 

[jive1]

jive, since you put it that way, now seems to be a bad combination of the entire 20th century.

Sure.........if you say so.

I'm glad that folks can gloss over any progress made to justify their gripes.

But enough of this, I gotta go eat lunch. Hopefully the segregated lunch counter will ignore the "whites only" sign when I eat there.

 

[jive1]

As well as voting, another way to create change is to invest. By investing you take partial ownership in the company, and with most stocks you get voting privileges.

I would love to see the day where activists buy out a seedy corporation and force it to change it's ways. Unfortunately, activism doesn't really exist in the world of investment. Thus, corporate greed can go unchecked.

 

[CrazyArcher]

Jive: I agree that in the long run the economy is bound to grow, but it the financial institutions behave like nothing serious happens, it's gonna lead to bi-i-ig problems. The whole recession talk isn't empty babble. Here are observations I base my opinion on.
I closely monitor the actions Stanley Fischer, former head of Citigroup, and present governor of state bank of Israel. He has absolutely no interest in fear-mongering, because he's not going to benefit from that, and yet he's been slashing the interest rate here retty drastically. When government officials say that the situation is bad, I can accept it as fear-mongering, but when someone respected who's proved his credibility in action shows off really dark pessimism, it should say something.

 

[embellisher]

Guys, lets try to keep politics out of this thread, or it will be closed, mmkay?

 

[James_B]

Jive, come on man, the roarin' twenties. A time when everyone wore pin striped suits and cool hats.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Guys, lets try to keep politics out of this thread, or it will be closed, mmkay?

I am heartened that this thread has stayed very civil and to the point - it has given me a different perspective on the current US situation from the mass media - where, as people have said - the only News is Bad News!

Interesting for me to hear about life across the pond...

 

[peterbright]

The majority is not always right! That's one of the reasons you need a constitution that is actually followed by all three brances of government. We are in a recession as we speak. Unfortunately, being pessimistic about it only makes it worse.

The people who sold the speculative investments and made many billions doing it and the fools who got themselves in over their heads should share responsibility with the government who wants to deregulate all business practices regardless of the outcome. Unfortunately, everyone will bear the cost of these follies.

 

[invader3k]

"Or the 1950s America where there was a chicken in every pot and racism, sexism, and a bunch of other "isms" running rampant?"

I'm a white male, so I choose this one!

 

[WRBass]

... We are in a recession as we speak. Unfortunately, being pessimistic about it only makes it worse. ..

Sorry about taking what you said out of context. I agree with everything you said. But, you don't know that we are in a recession. All indications are that the economy is still growing. It's not growing as fast as before, but it's still growing.

A recession is when the economy begins to shrink, and it has to do it 2 quarters in a row. In general, the media is very biased and negative. I think this article tells it well:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[MakiSupaStar]

I thought this was funny. Thought of this thread.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Sorry about taking what you said out of context. I agree with everything you said. But, you don't know that we are in a recession. All indications are that the economy is still growing. It's not growing as fast as before, but it's still growing.

I wonder if you still think the same way...?

 

[WRBass]

I wonder if you still think the same way...?

Bruce, the economy is still growing! And the government is about to take some drastic steps to keep it growing. But there has been no indication of even a single quarter of negative growth.