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amp & cab for metal

D

dean corll

Dec 16, 2006
3
0
#1
hi, I've been playing bass for about a year and I'm looking for a new amp rig. I like to play metal (any kind) and I've been using an Ampeg 1x12 combo, but I've been jamming with a double-bass drummer and guitarist and my bass just disappears. the guitarist uses a VHT Pittbull half-stack with Rivera Los Lobottom subwoofer, so I have some serious competition in the low-end dept :) I do play with a heavy pick, and that helps, but I definetely need a bigger rig!

I've read a lot of recommendations for Ampeg, Trace Elliot, and Gallien-Krueger as great metal bass amps, but any particular models or head/cab(s) that I should check out?

any opinions on these possible setups?

Trace Elliot AH1000-12 head w/ 1048H & 1518 cabs

Gallien-Krueger 2001RB head w/ 410RBH & 115RBH cabs

Ampeg SVT-VR head w/ SVT-810E cab

Ampeg SVT-1000 head w/ SVT-810E cab

...or any other suggested rigs would be welcomed. thanks.
 
#3
I'd go preamp + poweramp and make the pre the Ampeg SVPCL pre. As for power amp...no clue, but you can find plenty that maximize your power.
For cabs...the Ampeg SVT-610 is nice from what I can tell testing it. But if you are willing to spend a lot of money, look into Accugroove. I was just shown the Bill Dickens custom model and it was pretty damn amazing.
PS, I play metal as well and the Ampeg SVPCL works perfectly for me. The mid-selector helps you cut through very well. As a metal bassist, you gotta learn to love those mids because that is where you will cut through.
 
#7
Something with 10's for speakers. Sounds like your guitar player thinks he's a bassist...so you might as well fill up the mids! Don't try to out LOW him...you'll just ruin speakers and fart out cabs...plus muddy up the sound. It's all about the EQ in this situation. Either that, or have a good long talk with said guitar player about the sound spectrum and who fills what space!

All of the above amp recomendations sound like good ideas, just depends on the sound you want and the cash you have!

My experiances (take with a grain of salt): The Mesa 400+ cuts through great and sounds awesome, but it's heavy (42lbs), has a kinda weird EQ feature (hard to get used to at first), and is fragile cuz of the tubes (replaced mine twice in 5 years due to bangin' around on tour). The Mid section is great in this amp. It's a kinda clean tube amp, so it doesn't have an overdrive, but turning the gain all up gets a bit of distortion, if you like. Not the Grind sound like an SVT, though. Plenty of power...that's for sure!

Sansamp RBI and QSC PLX amp: So lightweight (even in a rack case) that it roadies itself to the gig!!! RBI is simply awesome in the studio. The XLR output on the back and separate level knob for it is a soundguys bit O'heaven. Good super clean to heavy overdrive sounds. EQ section is a bit limited, but suits most needs. The presence knob (super high frequency?) is about a waste of space for a rocker/punker. I keep it all the way turned down. It just adds hiss and crazy clacky/twangy sound. And I play with my fingers! I couldn't imagine it turned up with a pick!!! Unless you are going for the DD Verdi from Overkill sound...yipes! But it's a pretty inexpensive, really well built and very useful preamp. A lot of metal guys use them too!

Ampeg SVT-CL: Hey, what can I say that hasn't been written and recorded for the past 40-50 years! It sounds great and you have probably been hearing it's tone on tons of recordings and live shows throughout your life. It's expensive. Even used are still around a grand. It's a heavy bugger (78 on my scale), but it's balanced well and not too bad to move around. It always seems to find it's way through the guitars in all the situations I've used it in. So much power and that grind tone is sweet (master volume all up and gain used to control the loudness, not really overdrive...just more a gutteral-oomph!). It just sound right, to me at least! The EQ section is lacking a bit. It has that 5 selector switch for the frequency of the Mid to boost or cut, which I would rather have a variable knob. The Ultra Low button seems to scoop mids out in exchange for a slight low boost. The ultra high switch puts on that clacky/twangy sound again...if you like that, it's cool though. Almost all settings (except crazy extremes) sound good with this amp.

Sorry for the long post...good luck with your amp hunting
 
#9
Masher88 said:
Sansamp RBI and QSC PLX amp: So lightweight (even in a rack case) that it roadies itself to the gig!!! RBI is simply awesome in the studio. The XLR output on the back and separate level knob for it is a soundguys bit O'heaven. Good super clean to heavy overdrive sounds. EQ section is a bit limited, but suits most needs. The presence knob (super high frequency?) is about a waste of space for a rocker/punker. I keep it all the way turned down. It just adds hiss and crazy clacky/twangy sound. And I play with my fingers! I couldn't imagine it turned up with a pick!!! Unless you are going for the DD Verdi from Overkill sound...yipes! But it's a pretty inexpensive, really well built and very useful preamp. A lot of metal guys use them too!
Click to expand...

Yeah! I too am a metal bassist, so we have to compete with some of the more challanging conditions known to bass. I am currently putting together a RBI/RPM (haven't decided which yet) with a trace elliot preamp, and then I'm looking into getting a 4-6x10 cab. I can say that the trace is GREAT if you're looking for very clean, to a decent amount of grind. But if you're looking for more (like me) you're prob. gonna want to add the RBI or a BDDI or something.

~K
 
#10
i would go for at least 6 or 8 tens...i jammed with a hardcore band for about 6 months (tuned CGCF) through an eden navigator preamp with a crown xls 402 (bridged at about 1200 watts) through 2 swr goliath cabs, and it sounded pretty awesome...guitarist 1 was playing through a marshall half stack and guitarist 2 was playing through a stereo rig - mesa half stack on one side and another marshall on the other side...it was pretty thick...also, i was playing a spector euro with a 34" scale with heavy guage strings...i replied on your other post about getting another bass
 
#11
I use the Ashdown heads, and we play thrash metal with that old time swedish influence (darket hour, in flames)

One of the important things to note is your tuning, and how you want to be heard live. We're tuned to D Standard but alot of metal players go way low to B or even A standard, and even some weird alternate tunings but for now Im gonna assume you're within a full step of standard...... if youre a Drop "A" guy I cant really say.........

In my opinion what kills many metal bassists live it the tendency to want to boost the very lows and scoop the sound too much. Often thats excatly what the guitarists are doing and then you've got both them and the kick drum to contend with... and of course noone can hear you live.

I always say for metal go with the punchiest cab you can find, and the amp with the most natural low end and clear midrange.

Ive used GK, Ampeg (the hybrids), a bunch of preamps and poweramps, Basson cabs, GK cabs, Ampeg cabs, Schroeder cabs, Bergantinos etc and I've finally settled on my Ashdown ABM / Bergantino NV610 setup. Its super punch and very natural.

Other great choices would be Schroeder cabinets. You will not be lost in the mix with these, as they have this inherent midrange thing thats a Godsend for alot of people struggling with loud bands. I recommedn a good preamp and hefty poweramp for the Schroeders tho... as they dont really start to do thier thing until they get very loud.

Definetly recommend the Ashdown tho.....
 
#12
Aguilar DB750/Schroeder 210212. I use an Eden WT550 with a Schroeder 1210 and a Schroeder Mini12 in parallel and it's a great combination, growly and tight, perfect for metal IMO (we play some sort of technical stuff, like coroner meets death meets slipknot meets watchtower). Ideally I would have the setup I suggested, and I might get the Aggie sometime. I doubt about the 210212, because we don't always play in the same studio, so it's easier to me to just get the 1210 and pair it with some other cab in the other studio (it sounds a little compressed and boxy on its own when pushed) than haul around the 210212, but I believe that this combination will kill. BTW if you wanna go modular as well like me, I'd suggest a 1210 paired with a 1212 (or two 21012, depending on how small you wanna go), as I don't like the Mini 12 on its own - but that would give you two very usable small cabs.
 
#17
Cab-wise, I'd recommend something with 10" speakers. They have a slightly faster response and more high end. I'm pretty sure fast pick playing on 15" speakers would be a bit muddy.

Head-wise, it has a lot to do with preference. I'd go with a reliable tube head - Ampeg SVT-CL, SVT-2 Pro, Trace-Elliot V-8, maybe a Mesa 400+.

Hybrid heads (tube/solid) are a bit cleaner and brighter, and lighter, too. Ashdown makes killer heads (ABM-500 or -900) and Ampeg's SVT-4 Pro is very powerful. The SVT-3 Pro sounds a bit dirtier and grindier, which could be your preference.

EQing is also down to preference and the style of music you're playing. Either way, I'd bump the low-mids to be heard - try not to cut the mids or you'll be lost in the mix. If you need to cut through a bit more, boost some high mids to get some grind in. If you're playing a lot of root notes and just need to add some definition, a high boost will add sparkle to your notes. Try to EQ with your bandmates in mind to not flood the mix with low end (you + guitar + double bass).
 
#18
Try out as many heads as you can. Decide if you want all Tube, hybrid, or Solid State. Personally, I've found the GK 1001RB (SS), SVT4 (hybrid), and SVTII (tube) all to be great sounding heads. It just depends on what kind of tone you're going for. Look at what bass players that you like are using and use that as a reference. As far as a cabinet, you can't go wrong with the Ampeg 810E.
 
#19
I recently graduated from an old PA system head to an Ashdown ABM 500 RC Evo II...and its a night and day difference. I play in a heavy band, not really metal, but about as hard rock as it gets, and the Ashdown is amazing in its ability to cut through with extreme clarity, or to dirty up nicely for some tube tone.

My band has 2 guitarists that play in drop-D (and then down a whole step), so I have some competition in the low mids. The Ashdown head with the mids boosted a bit really cuts through in the mix and when I upgraded it not only made me sound better, but the band as a whole plays tighter now. The real trick is to get enough clean headroom for metal, you're not going for a really distorted tone, right? You're going for low end and clarity to offset the onslaught of distortion and bass pedal hits. I've found the Ashdown does this better than the GK and Ampeg amps that are common in my local music scene, though I'd imagine with tweaking they'd all be good if the headroom is appropriate to the other members' setups.
 
#20
Mesa stuff is great for metal.

Sansamp BDDI is a great little preamp for metal too. You can check the songs in my sig if you want to hear how Mesa/Sansamp sounds.

Out of your choices, I'd go with the GK but use 2 4x10 cabinets. You want tons of midrange when you are playing with double bass and a high gain guitarist.

You might want to ask your guitarist to roll back his lows a bit. I hate it when mine cranks his lows too hard... makes everything sound like mud (and I use a very midrange/low midrange oriented tone).
 

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