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amp & cab, new guy, new to bass
- Thread starter JohnnyDepth
- Start date
The single 12 may not be enough for your needs, but otherwise think you're going to love that head or any of the Subway heads for that matter. Buying a mesa head new comes with that 5 year warranty, and I'm pretty sure I'll be using my WD-800 for decades as it seems built to last. That TT-800 is probably going to make you happy everytime you plug into it, at least, my WD-800 does...whether I'm running through my avatar b410 or the XLR out.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] $250 + shipping
I'd call the store that has that and see if it were 4 or 8 ohms, but avatar 410s are rated for like 800-900w and sound great imo.. especially for the cost used. And buying used from GC, if anything is defective you can return it and even get your shipping costs back most likely. Or if you simply don't like it, you got to try it out for the cost of shipping. I got my 4ohm b410 for slightly less than that several years ago and it's hard to think about cab shopping considering that it sounds awesome, and that it's hard to beat their cost used. I MIGHT buy some subway cabinets to go with my head should I ever end up with a surplus of money in the bank.. but that not being the case, my used Avatar has got me covered.
I was going to point out that a mesa 2x12 is about $400 less than two individual 1x12's.. but still $450 more than a single 1x12, and the 2x12 will be comparable to two 1x12 soundwise.
My guess is that if you land yourself that TT-800 or one of the other Subway heads you will probably end up wanting to keep it. But, that's just my opinion.. there are other options that will do the job.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] $250 + shipping
I'd call the store that has that and see if it were 4 or 8 ohms, but avatar 410s are rated for like 800-900w and sound great imo.. especially for the cost used. And buying used from GC, if anything is defective you can return it and even get your shipping costs back most likely. Or if you simply don't like it, you got to try it out for the cost of shipping. I got my 4ohm b410 for slightly less than that several years ago and it's hard to think about cab shopping considering that it sounds awesome, and that it's hard to beat their cost used. I MIGHT buy some subway cabinets to go with my head should I ever end up with a surplus of money in the bank.. but that not being the case, my used Avatar has got me covered.
I was going to point out that a mesa 2x12 is about $400 less than two individual 1x12's.. but still $450 more than a single 1x12, and the 2x12 will be comparable to two 1x12 soundwise.
My guess is that if you land yourself that TT-800 or one of the other Subway heads you will probably end up wanting to keep it. But, that's just my opinion.. there are other options that will do the job.
In normal times, GC used has tons of options and you could probably get it shipped to you from wherever within a few days. Some reverb sellers will also ship cabs, or meet up within a certain distance.
Where in PA are you? Even if you're in the dead zone in the middle, that's still only a couple days shipping and/or a few hours drive from a bunch of bigger cities that should have some decent used inventory one way or another.
Also, if you buy used, that is going to stretch your budget a lot farther to the extent that even if you had to drive a couple hundred miles or so to pick something up, you would probably still come out ahead.
Where in PA are you? Even if you're in the dead zone in the middle, that's still only a couple days shipping and/or a few hours drive from a bunch of bigger cities that should have some decent used inventory one way or another.
Also, if you buy used, that is going to stretch your budget a lot farther to the extent that even if you had to drive a couple hundred miles or so to pick something up, you would probably still come out ahead.
TL;DR: A 410 + two 112s with the TT will set you back over double your initial, $2K budget and I think that there are better options for you within the Subway line -- you'll still be over $2K, but not as much, and the rigs make more sense (at least to me). You could further economize with a good used amp or cabs (You could, for instance, get a 700 or 1001 RBII and two Subway cabs for the price of the TT and one cab.), but that is up to you. Based on your posts, within the Subway line, I would probably start with a 115 (8 Ohm), 210 (8Ohm), or maybe the 212 (4 Ohm).
In your OP and another post, you mentioned a few things:
- Weight not a huge concern, but not too heavy ("getting old and don't wanna blow out my back," or words to that effect).
- Looking for a light head, but "cab will be what it is"
- You dig the Mesa 400+ (or, at least, that head would've been your first choice if not so heavy)
- You play heavy and dig the "open, snarling" sound (a la Helmet) but aren't looking to cop anyone's tone exactly.
- Budget of $2K, combined, for amp and cab(s).
For me, personally, the typical 410 is about my least favorite form-factor -- it's boxy, squat, a little awkward to carry. Depending on your vehicle, it might be awkward to load (friend used to tear up his back seat with his). I'd rather have a good, vertical 2x12 or even 2x15 (taller, so better for monitoring, likely narrower and easier to carry) than a 410.
That said, the Mesa 410 is fairly light (55 pounds) and, if the form-factor doesn't bother you, could very well be enough on its own (it's 4 Ohms, so will be getting the full 800 Watts from the TT amp) or serve as the basis for a nice, modular rig (4 Ohm 410 + 8 Ohm 210 is one possibility, as in this thread: Aguilar AG 700 - 4 Ohm + 8 Ohm cabs - Does anyone run this combination?).
As to 410+112+112, how are you planning to use the cabs? Stacked? The TT will do 2 Ohms @ 800 Watts, so you could do it and it would be a monstrous rig, but you've got to consider whether you'll actually use them that way. I also suspect that, within the Subway line, you'd find better pairings with the 410.
You mentioned maybe leaving the 410 at the drummer's place and using a 112 or 115 at home. If you're looking to practice at home, sans drummer, any of the cabs will be enough. If you want to leave the 410 at the drummer's, that's up to you, but consider that you might be paying a premium to do that. If you want to leave the 410 at the drummer's and have the option of stacking with whatever cab you've got at home, I'd consider the 210 or, maybe, the 115 -- less money than two of the 112s and, I think, likely to be a better pairing (the 210 for sure).
Back-tracking some, if you're looking to start with one cab and thinking of playing in louder settings, I'm not sure that the 112 would be my first choice. I've played in bars where a good 112 is plenty and bars (not necessarily huge ones) where even the most potent 112 would be pushed pretty hard.
You might find this thread to be of interest: If you can only choose 1 MESA Subway cab... Or this one: Need advise on powerful stage rig, Mesa Subway cabinet selection There are demos of the different cabs on the Mesa site, too -- you might find it useful to listen to those.
Since you come from a guitar background, one thing that might help you choose a bass rig is to consider the kind of guitar rig you'd be playing in a given situation. Marshall JCM into a half-stack? No way a single 12 for bass will be enough. You can also reference your current amp -- are you pegging it and running out of room, or is it loud enough?
Too, do you care about the modular thing -- that is, having smaller cabs you can use on their own or stack for a bigger rig -- or are you cool with a single, bigger cab (assuming you're going to play loud)? (Budget will factor in here, too.)
For myself, if I couldn't audition the cabs and was looking to stay within the Mesa Subway line and put together a rig for everything from pubs to outdoors, I'd consider:
- the 2x12 -- should be fairly comfortable in smallish stuff and fairly capable for louder stuff. Maybe add another cab (12 or 15) if necessary (quite possible for outdoors, especially if PA support isn't good).
- the 2x15 -- should be enough for about everything. Too much for some of the smaller stuff I would do -- maybe pick up a single 12 or 15 for that (or if I want a monster rig for outdoors -- 215+210 also possible).
- 410 -- if you dig the form-factor (I would tilt it back on a wedge for monitoring); should be enough for most stuff -- if I added a cab to it, would most likely be the 210.
If the cabs put you beyond what you're comfortable spending (several of those options are over $2K, just in cabs) you can economize on the head. Lots of powerful and not-huge amps that would drive the cabs well are available, used, for a few hundred dollars (Bear in mind that some will have a 4 Ohm minimum -- that'd limit you to a single 4 Ohm cab, like the 2x15, 2x12, or 410, or two 8 Ohm cabs -- two 15s, two 210s, 15+210, 15+12, etc.)
There were some used cabs that caught my eye in the classifieds -- and you could put together a potent and relatively easy-to-schlep rig for under $2K -- but, given what you say about your playing style and tendency to crank stuff, I think new with a warranty is not a bad idea.
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This is true -- depends on the drummer, the music, and the room. Even though, in my post above, I said that I would probably start with the 115 over the 112 (especially if I had to pick without auditioning), I did, shortly pre-COVID, play a downstairs bar with just my 8 Ohm, Audiokinesis Hathor 1203 (a 1x12 cab) and maybe 250 Watts. Drums, keys, guitar, vocals, horns on a couple of tunes -- sounded great and was plenty.
Other places, though (with louder crowds and louder players), I'd have felt more comfortable with more cab, even with more power on tap and even though the Hathor is a potent 1x12.
Actually I was apparently mistaken when I said Mesa/Boogie warranties are transferable. This is no longer true for MESA products manufactured after 3/1/19, current warranty documentation specifies the warranty is for the original owner.
If the amp was manufacturered prior to March of last year, the warranty is still transferable.
If the amp was manufacturered prior to March of last year, the warranty is still transferable.
Oh! Good to know. If that is correct, I've been operating under a mistaken assumption for the last year and a bit. Still one of the best warranties in the industry, even if limited to the original owner, but that transferable warranty was a major selling point for used Mesa gear.
I'm pretty sure a lot of the Subway line were manufactured prior to that date. So it would still apply.
Yeah, there would still be a lot of stuff out there with the transferable warranty. Most manufacturers' warranties don't transfer and I think I can see why Mesa might have gone that route -- I was just surprised. The transferable warranty had been around long enough that it was something of a TB mantra.
Still, looking at the warranty now -- 5 years amps, 5 years cabs (3 years speakers) -- it's more than many companies have and I know that their service is solid. Even if I have to pay to have something serviced down the line, just knowing that that's an option and that competent service is available is reassuring.
EDIT: Warranty text, lest I misrepresent anything: Invalid Link Removed
Indeed.. 5 year coverage exudes confidence in my opinion. I'm sure my WD-800 will last me much longer than that, but it's also a comforting thought that I'll have the option to have it serviced after that while keeping it within US borders, albeit with a service charge. Sure the heads have a hefty price tag, but, well worth it imo.
If you're not going to do gigs, then go cheap on the amp. Get a cheap ampeg b2re used for 200+-. What you NEED to record is a Sansamp Bass Driver DI. Will cost ya bout 200 (or 100 used) and is all you will ever need for recording. You can also use it for practice, tone wise but will need that cheap amp. Plenty of used cabs cheap out there. Any 410 would do. You could get a GK backline 410 for about 200 used.
When I decided I wanted to add bass to my guitar and keyboards, I wandered over to Talkbass and hung out for a while. I learned that I should pick out the cabinets first (!) and then add an appropriate head. At that time there were several cabinet designers hanging out here, and a couple of people who were on the site actually allowed me to visit them and listen to their cabinets. Mind, I've been a touring pro with keys (and, to a lesser extent, guitar), worked in a music store for a while and have been squinty about gear (spend if you need to, but get good gear the first time) forever.
I expected to be told to pick up one of the random 4x10s and a 500W head and settle in.
But my first cabinet was a fEARless F112 (34 lbs), my second was an F115 (43 lbs) and I found a used but pristine Carvin BX1500 head (10 lbs) to go with them. I ruined the head weight by putting the head into a 3U rack cabinet next to a Line 6 G90 wireless receiver. I can run a single cabinet at 8 ohms and the head will put out 800-900W (about right for that cabinet) or both at 4 ohms with the full 1500W (rarely necessary). Either single cabinet will be more than enough for most gigs, honestly. The BX1500 was about $300 used off a pile at the local GC, and the F115 was about $1400 brand new from an "authorized builder." The F112 I found used and paid around $1000.
I work with a Helix Floor (guitar, bass and even keyboards) for the most part, and I have a backup HD1500 Carvin power amp. Given the frequency range of the cabinets, I match up pretty well to most PA systems, so I can use one of the cabs as an onstage monitor while everything goes through a mixer and the mains. And at home I can run the Helix through headphones or active near field studio monitors for personal practice.
