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Amp/Cab preferences for Rob Allen and other piezo basses?

foothilla

foothilla

Aug 21, 2016
692
754
Los Angeles
#1
I have a Rob Allen Deep 4 bass that I love. Only problem is, it only sounds great out of select amps. It sounds rough through my preferred electric bass amps. The amps I like the piezo through (old SWR acoustic amps) aren't loud enough to hang with heavy-handed drummers.

So, I would love to hear some of your amplifier/cabinet/combo recommendations for Rob Allen basses,.....or really rig recommendations for any bass that features a piezo pickup. Thanks!
 
#2
I played my two old Rick Turner Renaissance basses through whatever amp I happened to own/use at the time and they sounded great, so I am not sure piezo equipped basses really require specific amps to sound their best.

Same with the NS CR4M upright bass I had a few years ago; I used only the piezo pickup on that bass (I wasn't enamored with the magnetic pickup's tone). It sounded just fine through all my amps.

Hope this helps.
 
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#3
IME Bergantino has a hi-fi / full-range approach that works great with piezo / acoustic instruments. (Particularly the B|Amp running a profile for one of their cabs.) You can start with a near-perfect "blank slate" then add EQ & compression (and breakup) to taste. It seemed the obvious choice the other day for doubling on ABG & DB.
ovation-kay-berg - 1.jpeg
 
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#5
Jeff Scott said:
I played my two old Rick Turner Renaissance basses through whatever amp I happened to own/use at the time and they sounded great, so I am not sure piezo equipped basses really require specific amps to sound their best.

Same with the NS CR4M upright bass I had a few years ago; I used only the piezo pickup on that bass (I wasn't enamored with the magnetic pickup's tone). It sounded just fine through all my amps.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

I know it's subjective, but I have so many rigs that I love with electric basses (Mesa, EBS, Quilter, Warwick). However, I don't like the Rob Allen through any of them. Then I put the Rob Allen through an SWR California (or Strawberry) Blonde; and then it sounds like the bass God would play. Those SWR amps were designed with piezo in mind, and you can tell when you compare them with my "normal" bass amps.

Unfortunately, they easily get drowned out by drummers. I want that sound, but with way more volume.
 
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#6
foothilla said:
I know it's subjective, but I have so many rigs that I love with electric basses (Mesa, EBS, Quilter, Warwick). However, I don't like the Rob Allen through any of them. Then I put the Rob Allen through an SWR California (or Strawberry) Blonde; and then it sounds like the bass God would play. Those SWR amps were designed with piezo in mind, and you can tell when you compare them with my "normal" bass amps.

Unfortunately, they easily get drowned out by drummers. I want that sound, but with way more volume.
Click to expand...

Since I've never played your bass through that rig...

...how would you describe the sound you are trying to achieve, and how does that sound differ from other amps?

I am told amps with very high input impedance work better with piezo p'ups. Perhaps one answer might be to plug your piezo p'ups into a high impedance device on the way to your amp.
 
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#7
Jazzdogg said:
Since I've never played your bass through that rig...

...how would you describe the sound you are trying to achieve, and how does that sound differ from other amps?

I am told amps with very high input impedance work better with piezo p'ups. Perhaps one answer might be to plug your piezo p'ups into a high impedance device on the way to your amp.
Click to expand...

Set totally flat, the Rob Allen through the SWR acoustic amps sounds super warm and woody. Very organic sounding; but still with great definition and clarity. Warm without mud, and dynamic touch response.

Flat, through my normal bass amps, the Rob Allen still sounds clear and defined, but it's comparatively harsh and abrasive, almost ear fatiguing. The touch sensitivity is relatively non-existent (heavy touch easily clips the pre-amps). I can sweeten the normal rigs up with pre-amps, effects, and fairly drastic EQ tweaks. But it still doesn't give me the qualities of the dead-flat SWR acoustic amps, and I need all that external crap that the SWR's don't need.

I honestly think it comes down to the SWR's being designed for acoustic instruments, and the other amps are designed for magnetic pickups. I just can't find any high-end amps, that push volume, but were designed for acoustic instruments.

I have read great stuff about Acoustic Image. But their heads peak out at 500 continuous watts, and I read that they can also struggle to keep up with heavy-handed drummers.
 
#9
foothilla said:
Set totally flat, the Rob Allen through the SWR acoustic amps sounds super warm and woody. Very organic sounding; but still with great definition and clarity. Warm without mud, and dynamic touch response.

Flat, through my normal bass amps, the Rob Allen still sounds clear and defined, but it's comparatively harsh and abrasive, almost ear fatiguing. The touch sensitivity is relatively non-existent (heavy touch easily clips the pre-amps). I can sweeten the normal rigs up with pre-amps, effects, and fairly drastic EQ tweaks. But it still doesn't give me the qualities of the dead-flat SWR acoustic amps, and I need all that external crap that the SWR's don't need.

I honestly think it comes down to the SWR's being designed for acoustic instruments, and the other amps are designed for magnetic pickups. I just can't find any high-end amps, that push volume, but were designed for acoustic instruments.

I have read great stuff about Acoustic Image. But their heads peak out at 500 continuous watts, and I read that they can also struggle to keep up with heavy-handed drummers.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with the HPF Pre, built by Talkbass participant FDeck? It is a cost effective way to add the high inout impedance so many piezos like to "see," and it's a variable high-pass filter as well.
 
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#12
I am using an Acoustic Image Ten2 and it's amazing. Originally used it with my acoustic upright and also my CRM 4. Now I just use it for my electric bass guitars. It sounds great and is crazy powerful while under 30 lbs. I don't know of a better amp for acoustic bass.

That said, I am looking for a midsized Phil Jones. I love my little double 4 for practice and playing with old timey group.
 
#13
Ironwood318 said:
I am using an Acoustic Image Ten2 and it's amazing. Originally used it with my acoustic upright and also my CRM 4. Now I just use it for my electric bass guitars. It sounds great and is crazy powerful while under 30 lbs. I don't know of a better amp for acoustic bass.

That said, I am looking for a midsized Phil Jones. I love my little double 4 for practice and playing with old timey group.
Click to expand...
Is the Acoustic Image not loud enough for all applications?
 
#15
I've been using an Acoustic Image Focus 1 (Series II) for all of my basses -- including a Rob Allen MB-2 -- for ~20 years, and in that time I have yet to meet a drummer that this amp can't keep up with, if not bury. My Focus 1 Series II is "only" 600 watts into 4 ohms, but with a pair of Eden David-series cabs, or the pair of Flite Sound cabs pictured below, it delivers all the tone and power I could desire.

I suspect the thing that makes the AI head work especially well with Rob Allen basses is the 10MΩ input impedance...but tbh I use that input regardless of whether I'm using active or passive or piezo-equipped basses.

MINI-RIG-OF-DOOM.jpg
 
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#18
Going back a few years I liked my Mouse through an early SWR Baby Blue II then later Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 and 6.0 combos.
The Mouse is gone but piezos have remained a big part of my sound. A Noble preamp has become integral to my acoustic sound and it’s also meant the same rig works equally well for a solid body with magnetics. It’s made some pretty mediocre house amps very usable too.

detour warning
A while back Andy Field aka agedhorse mentioned he’d tested a number of piezo pickups and found an input impedance of 1-2 meg ohms sounded better than the traditional 10 meg. Less got thin, more over-accentuated boomy lows. If it had been anyone else I’d have taken this with a grain of salt but coming from him I tried it. 1 meg sounded fine with a Gage Lifeline pickup. Most of the missing lows were what I was already filtering out with a HPF. I’ve stopped using 10 megs as the first thing the pickup sees. One guy with one pickup isn’t definitive but if you’re leaning on a HPF for your piezos maybe something to think about.
 

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