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Amp Emulation / DI for (*gasp*) Guitar?

Zooberwerx

Zooberwerx

Gold Supporting Member
Dec 21, 2002
23,315
28,110
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Virginia Beach, VA
#1
As the ad hoc sound guy, I need to get a better handle on our guitarists' presence in FOH while reducing stage volume / wash. We've mic'd both guitar rigs in the past but with varying results. I'd like to be able to insert some type of amp emulator DI after the effects chain, run a balanced line to the board, and kick signal to both the monitors and FOH. I really don't need an abundance of onboard-DI effects options as these guys are pretty loyal to their pedal boards. A handful of options I've considered:

1) Amp modeler, i.e. Johnson, Line 6, Vox, etc.

2) Amp emulator, i.e SansAmp (model ?).

3) Speaker ouput "hot box" DI (brand?).

4) Mic out as always.

I also have a spare SansAmp RPM that I can trial. The box says "multi-instrument" and I believe the platform is based on that of a particular SansAmp guitar pedal, although I can't recall which.

As always, I appreciate the input (no pun intended) and embrace the K.I.S.S. philosophy with a passion.

Riis
 
#2
You could look into the sansamp character series. They have all analogue amp emulation with speaker sim and the VT pedal sounds great on bass. I have seen clips and it seems like the guitar versions are of the same quality.

Then just slap a DI behind it and your done.
 
#3
If you want there are several solution from Native Instruments (with Guitar rig) and IK Multimedia (with AmpliTube) for using with one simple device their software.

Here you can find an impro that I did using the latest AmpliTube 3 software:
just if you want a little "demo" about bass sounds...
 
#4
Bootzilla said:
You could look into the sansamp character series. They have all analogue amp emulation with speaker sim and the VT pedal sounds great on bass. I have seen clips and it seems like the guitar versions are of the same quality.

Then just slap a DI behind it and your done.
Click to expand...

That's an idea. Ideally, I'd like to find a single unit with emulation and an XLR / DI. Off the top of my head, I know the VOX has those features. This cat is using an ancient Peavey combo ("the amp that would not die"); the pedal will probably outweigh it in value.

Riis
 
#5
I've heard guitarists come out of a POD straight to the board and sound awesome, and I've heard other guitarists do the same thing and sound just godawful. It really depends on how your guitarist sets it up... some guys have a great ear for what tones work well in a band environment, and others don't have a clue... same as with an amp. I completely agree with you that with all the technology available today, there really is no excuse for blistering loud guitar amps on stage, ever.

One thing, even if you go with a direct-to-board option I would still recommend you set up a guitar amp and mic as a backup even if the amp never gets turned on. If the guitarist's POD goes down mid-gig (as happened in a worship band I was subbing for a few weeks ago) and you have no backup for amplification, you're hosed.
 
#6
I haven't had any hands-on with the Character Series Sansamps from Tech 21. However, if the guitarists in question are already using a real amp that is represented by something in that line, I'd certainly be looking that direction. IE, guitar player typically uses a VOX AC30, then a Liverpool Sansamp would be a top consideration.
I own a GT2, I like it for guitar and it takes pedals really well. That's just me..

The PODs/digital modelers et al seem to get mixed reviews from guitar players. The exception is AXE-FX, I've yet to hear a guitar player who tried that system who hasn't raved about it.
 
#7
jaywa said:
One thing, even if you go with a direct-to-board option I would still recommend you set up a guitar amp and mic as a backup even if the amp never gets turned on.
Click to expand...

We'll continue to send a signal to his Peavey combo whether it be via a splitter or unaffected out from the modeler. I've found thru experimentation that if you strike a balance betweenst the monitor and backline amp, the guitarists are more apt to keep the volume below a dull roar.

Riis
 
#8
Zooberwerx said:
We'll continue to send a signal to his Peavey combo whether it be via a splitter or unaffected out from the modeler. I've found thru experimentation that if you strike a balance betweenst the monitor and backline amp, the guitarists are more apt to keep the volume below a dull roar.

Riis
Click to expand...

Yeah we've started doing that with one of the guitarists in our band too. He would keep turning up throughout the night and finally we just started feeding a little of him thru his wedge and now he pretty much leaves his amp alone. His wedge and mine are on different sub-mixes so it doesn't change my world at all.
 
#9
As much as I'm cool with direct recorded guitar - reverb is a BIG factor in selling the "air" of the guitar

it's this reason I wish someone would come out with a convolution reverb pedal - where you could load in impulse responses via say a usb in.

using something like a low wattage tube amp into a mass attenuator rolled all the way down into convolution reverb would give a very realistic result through a PA - heck on a recording.
 
#10
If you really want a DI and amp sim in the same box you could get one of the other sansamp thingys or the VT bass deluxe. Quite a few people mentioned that the VT sounds great on guitar so it might do the trick.
 
#12
Are your guitarists cool with this? I'm pretty sure I'd be strung-up if asked the guitar player in the band I engineer for to get his tone out of a di/modeling box as opposed to slapping a 57 (or other mic) on his Dr. Z. Guitar amps are simple to mic up and get good sound, so unless the guitar players abosolutely want to go ampless, I'd suggest working on your setup (cross-firing amps across stage or using amp shields,etc.) before making a change in the signal path that might affect their sound.
 
#13
Barisaxman said:
Are your guitarists cool with this? I'm pretty sure I'd be strung-up if asked the guitar player in the band I engineer for to get his tone out of a di/modeling box as opposed to slapping a 57 (or other mic) on his Dr. Z. Guitar amps are simple to mic up and get good sound, so unless the guitar players abosolutely want to go ampless, I'd suggest working on your setup (cross-firing amps across stage or using amp shields,etc.) before making a change in the signal path that might affect their sound.
Click to expand...

Mic'ing is always an option. I need to find a way to get a decent guitar presence from here (points to stage) to there (points to audience) without inflicting any further damage (points to ears). They're not going ampless.

I love it when a guitarist refers to "his sound". Chances are they're clueless as to how things really sound 50' out.

Riis
 
#14
people still mic guitar amps for a reason. while modeling can actually sound really good these days, there is something about the interaction of the guitar and amp that modeling can't capture. i'd think twice about going a di route for that reason. just never seems to sound as good.
 
#17
dude....hughes and kettner red box. he can still use his amp, and it goes after the power amp....it just emulates the mic'd speaker....not any particular amp. I knew a guy who used one 10+ years ago, and he always had a good sound when i saw him play. Low wattage amp for stage + red box for DI will probably = more consistent and easier to control sound for the FOH. it eliminates the need to worry about mic choice/placement, also.
 
#18
red box is quite a legendary box for di'ing tube amps through the speaker, but only guitar amps...for bass it sucks. i've got one and i've used it on guitar occasionally. i still greatly prefer micing, though.
 
#19
MrTAteMyBalls said:
dude....hughes and kettner red box. he can still use his amp, and it goes after the power amp....it just emulates the mic'd speaker....not any particular amp. I knew a guy who used one 10+ years ago, and he always had a good sound when i saw him play. Low wattage amp for stage + red box for DI will probably = more consistent and easier to control sound for the FOH. it eliminates the need to worry about mic choice/placement, also.
Click to expand...

There we go! That's the "hot box" to which I referred in my original post....just couldn't think of the name. Thank you.

Riis
 
#20
I am a big fan of Native Instruments` Guitar Rig software. It even has the option of selecting a mic, placement angle, and distance / air from cab. Not to mention all of the various effects, cabs, heads and combos. GR 4 is out now, and I`ve heard it has an expanded bass section, as well.
 

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