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Amp Emulation / DI for (*gasp*) Guitar?

#21
pnut166 said:
I am a big fan of Native Instruments` Guitar Rig software. It even has the option of selecting a mic, placement angle, and distance / air from cab. Not to mention all of the various effects, cabs, heads and combos. GR 4 is out now, and I`ve heard it has an expanded bass section, as well.
Click to expand...
the bass section isn't as full featured as it could be in gr4. tube emulations are sorely lacking. but if you have computer enough to run it live (requires a fast computer and plenty of ram plus a switcher), it's fantastic for guitar. in this case, though, it's overkill.
 
#24
stephenrheard said:
Oh man I put my RPM/xti bass "head" on my guitar cab last night and it just blew me away. It had the perfect "me" guitar tone (though I doubt the tone "gods" gave us the exact same "tone in my head" etc...) anyway, I'd just see how far the RPM could take you, especially since you already own one.
Click to expand...

Certainly merits investigation and, yes, I have a spare RPM. We gigged last night and I forgot to look at his pedal board...don't know if he's using a reverb pedal or the combo's tank. I'd probably run the unaffected 1/4" out to his amp and the SansAmp XLR to the board.

Riis
 
#27
i have recently purchased a pair of the h&k red box di's...
i went with these over the radial because the radial doesn't have a lot of reviews being fairly new, so i couldn't find a true opinion... or afford to gamble.
the h&k are really great sounding, i prefer using them with the speaker output, as opposed to using the line in.
one important consideration is that the cab being used needs to match the head well...
if the head needs to be eq'd in any extreme way to make the cab sound correct, then obviously that ends up in the signal to foh.
ideally i'd use a mic as well as the red box, but when doing festivals
with rental back line and no time to really tweak the amps provided
having a solid, isolated signal can be a real advantage to work with.
i need to get some time in with the h&k in the studio, but live the highs (using fuzz/ distortion etc.) with the cab simulation/ filtering has been great.
 
#28
+1 for dark. that's about how i see the red box, too. except it's a little dry to me. but this week i'm supposed to record some guitar stuff so i'm going to try it again and see what i can do with it. usually i just slap a mic on my super but now you've got me all curious about it again.

btw, the foo fighters use red boxes on their guitar amps and no mics for their shows. at least they were doing that...no idea if they still are.
 
#29
D.A.R.K. said:
one important consideration is that the cab being used needs to match the head well...
ideally i'd use a mic as well as the red box, but when doing festivals
with rental back line and no time to really tweak the amps provided
having a solid, isolated signal can be a real advantage to work with.
Click to expand...

Well, the amp in question in an integrated Peavey combo so I'll assume the head and enclosure are a near-match. From my experience, guitarists absolutely hate having their rigs manipulated by others so having the latitude to tweak / EQ at the board will be a godsend.

JimmyM & D.A.R.K......appreciate the input and look forward to getting a full report somewhere down the pike.

Riis
 
#30
Zooberwerx said:
Well, the amp in question in an integrated Peavey combo so I'll assume the head and enclosure are a near-match. From my experience, guitarists absolutely hate having their rigs manipulated by others so having the latitude to tweak / EQ at the board will be a godsend.
Riis
Click to expand...

I guess I'm still not sure what the REAL problem is? You mention being able to tweak/EQ at the board...micing the cabinet allows just that. Is it that you can't get a good tone in FOH? What kind of FOH rig are you using? Guitar amp mics? Maybe it's not a problem with the guitar players sound, but how it's getting reproduced in the PA. I've never had a problem translating the guitar tone (good, bad, or otherwise) by simply micing the guitar amp. Toss a Shure 57 on it and go. Also had plenty of good experience with Sennheiser E609 and E906, heck even an Audix D3 sounds really good on guitar. If the guitar players' tone is that bad, it needs to be addressed with the player, not by throwing a bunch of magic black boxes at it (known in sound-guy world as sh!t in, sh!t out). I'm just wondering if you're chasing the wrong problem.
 
#31
Barisaxman said:
I guess I'm still not sure what the REAL problem is....
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Oh, no real problem per se. We almost never mic the guitar amps and I'd like to see that change. Since I'm stuck doing virtually all the PA work, I'm looking for the quickest method possible to get signal(s) to the board with a minimum of headaches. Come to find out, we don't have a surplus of decent mikes and stands as I originally thought.

Riis
 
#32
Okay, I have a RedBox Pro en route but I do have an application question.

The instructions read that, when used with "speaker out", a speaker or resistor must be plugged in on the far side so the configuration sees a "load". Tim's Peavey combo speaker is hard-wired inside the enclosure but both a secondary speaker output and preamp out are available on the rear of the chassis. May I assume its safe to use the secondary speaker output to feed the RedBox provided the internal speaker is active / functioning? Or am I way off base?

Riis
 
#33
curious how the red box pro sounds,
i have the classic version and supposedly they are quite different.
did some recording and as jimmy stated they are definitely dry and up front... luckily i have some decent reverb available and that alleviates that issue. great success with the fuzz and distortion as far as a direct sound goes, the 4x12 sim has a bit more thump and the combo setting was similar in the high end, a bit brighter with less lows, as you would expect. both shelved the highs in a musical way. not sure where their high pass freq is set, but i was able to get frequencies down to 50 hz post recording using addative eq without issue.
i even tried a markbass head through a 4x12 cab with the sim in between and cranked it up. no apparent compression, highs were open even with about 300 watts going through it....
the box reacted well with eq and gain. no issues or problems with amp and cab operation. post the tube amp power section was even better, produced a punchier tone where the markbass was more even and hi fi. add a mic and wow, the extreme transient response added from the red box makes for some very tight tones, without phase issues.
alone, reasonable amp eq and a bit of verb to open it up and you have something very usable.
mic or red box, it's still dependent on the amp and player to get a good tone. while these have some drawbacks (the speaker itself being taken out of the equation, dryer signal), they are no more problematic than a microphone, and give you a few options mics don't (complete isolation with a more pronounced response, ideal for getting a recording signal live and in the studio for re-amping later).
well worth the 100 bucks to me, and
i'll be making these a permanent option in my mic/ di cabinet.
 
#34
Zooberwerx said:
Okay, I have a RedBox Pro en route but I do have an application question.

The instructions read that, when used with "speaker out", a speaker or resistor must be plugged in on the far side so the configuration sees a "load". Tim's Peavey combo speaker is hard-wired inside the enclosure but both a secondary speaker output and preamp out are available on the rear of the chassis. May I assume its safe to use the secondary speaker output to feed the RedBox provided the internal speaker is active / functioning? Or am I way off base?

Riis
Click to expand...
i think you are on track, using the external speaker out while the internal takes the load, that makes sense. not sure if the red box loads the power section further than the driver alone though, so you might want to consult h&k on that in order to ensure running the power section at proper loads.
 
#35
what about a THD hotplate? I have one built in on my Univalve. It's not transparent, but it's better than most power brakes . . .

as for emulators, as a guitard too :D, I'd never "want" to use one if I had a tube amp. but if I had to the Sans Amps stuff is the best I've heard (and I've tried/had most of them) it is all analog - so good in fact I have a Trademark 60 I gig w/ sometimes . . .
 
#36
pasta4lnch said:
what about a THD hotplate? I have one built in on my Univalve. It's not transparent, but it's better than most power brakes . . .

as for emulators, as a guitard too :D, I'd never "want" to use one if I had a tube amp. but if I had to the Sans Amps stuff is the best I've heard (and I've tried/had most of them) it is all analog - so good in fact I have a Trademark 60 I gig w/ sometimes . . .
Click to expand...

i don't see where or how a power brake or hot plate really enters into this discussion.
the whole idea of the h&k, palmer and radial is to get the signal post that nice tube amp. it is all analog.
i agree that a tube amp crushes sims like the pod and sans amp stuff.
 
#37
D.A.R.K. said:
i don't see where or how a power brake or hot plate really enters into this discussion.
the whole idea of the h&k, palmer and radial is to get the signal post that nice tube amp. it is all analog.
i agree that a tube amp crushes sims like the pod and sans amp stuff.
Click to expand...

a hot plate has a line out - you could take the out of a guitar amp (if there is one thats not internally wired to the speaker) and run it through the hot plate to the FOH. In theory, as I've never used it for this purpose . . .
 
#38
pasta4lnch said:
a hot plate has a line out - you could take the out of a guitar amp (if there is one thats not internally wired to the speaker) and run it through the hot plate to the FOH. In theory, as I've never used it for this purpose . . .
Click to expand...

i had no idea thd had that, that's something i'll have to check out...
is it a cab sim though? or just a slave/ line level signal?
sounds like an ideal spot to get a signal to the line in on the h&k....
which i forgot to add, the line in on the h&k sounds excellent.
a friend of mine plays in a band called phantogram, he uses the line in on the h&k classic without a preamp.. post his pedal board.
he gets a great sound live, and uses no amplifier (they are a duo and run everything through a small mixer, and use iem)
 
#39
D.A.R.K. said:
a friend of mine plays in a band called phantogram, he uses the line in on the h&k classic without a preamp.. post his pedal board.
he gets a great sound live, and uses no amplifier (they are a duo and run everything through a small mixer, and use iem)
Click to expand...

This stupid thing has 4 operating modes. We'll give each a fair shake and report back.

Riis
 

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