Amp Head VS Preamp rack

[KrisWarrington]

Many many mixed opinions here. I have two bass racks one i use for studio and one I use for live performances. Just looking for opinions here.

Live:
Kustom Groove 1200HD Head
DBX 166xs (Limiter, Gate, Compressor)
DBX 215s (15 band EQ)
Furman PC Classic (Obvious)
Behringer BTR2000 (Tuner)

Studio:
BBE BMAX-T (Preamp)
BBE EQA131 (31 band EQ)
BBE MaxCom (Limiter, compressor, gate, sonic maximizer)

 

[BAMonBASS]

Even though i am going all tube i still love my Kustom Groove 1200HD and I am selling lots of other stuff just so i don't have to get rid of it. That is a monster amp that has an amazing growl for a solid state and i don't even use all the rack gear you do.

 

[Gearhead17]

Does it work well? Easy to use? Sounds good? Then rock it hard.

I think it is a bit ridiculous to have an extra EQ in the rack, but if it helps you, my opinion is useless.

I would normally say ditch everything that has the words BBE on it, but if it sounds good in the recording studio, who cares???

 

[KrisWarrington]

Even though i am going all tube i still love my Kustom Groove 1200HD and I am selling lots of other stuff just so i don't have to get rid of it. That is a monster amp that has an amazing growl for a solid state and i don't even use all the rack gear you do.

It is a great head, I prefer it over the 1300HD. It's great for a live amp and practice. The rack equipment is actually pretty modest in my opinion. I would love to throw in a Sonic Maximizer and a bigger EQ on that rack. There is no way I'm redoing my studio rack or unplugging all my live rack stuff to plug into the studio rack. I do highly recommend adding a sonic maximizer though if you don't have one. I mainly play with my bass switch on sub and the solo on it adds more raw bass plus the limiter and compressor keep it from clipping.

 

[KrisWarrington]

Does it work well? Easy to use? Sounds good? Then rock it hard.

I think it is a bit ridiculous to have an extra EQ in the rack, but if it helps you, my opinion is useless.

I would normally say ditch everything that has the words BBE on it, but if it sounds good in the recording studio, who cares???

Having an extra eq on the rack helps a lot. The EQ I have (which is only a 15 band) allows me to hit different freqs that dont come with the head itself. Which makes a pretty big difference in tone. I would love to get a bigger EQ on the rack though. What makes you disown BBE? BBE makes good quality equipment it's really underminded and it could double as a great live amp if you use direct in. I'm personally not a fan of directing in to a pa to play through monitors at a set or micing the bass amp (yes some people actually try to mic my stuff) That's why I went with the 1200HD and two G-810Hs. My bass rig can probably be herd from outerspace if I turned it all the way up. In all seriousness though I believe having a preamp rack instead of just a regular head would help achieve more tones than head could ever give. Then again you bring in the argument of effect processors and pedals (Which I choose to never use any). It's a big laundry list of things that could be but my live tone will NEVER match my studio tone which all you have to do is DI me into whatever mixer you have and hit the record button and let the rack do the rest.

 

[Selta]

Hey, if it works for you, then it works for you. That setup, especially having two 810s (heck, even one) would not even come close to working for my gig.
And for what it's worth, I play with a pick probably 80% of the time, if not more. I have no inclination to switch to guitar at all.

 

[KrisWarrington]

That setup, especially having two 810s (heck, even one) would not even come close to working for my gig.

What makes you say that?

 

[Selta]

No room to have that large of a setup on stage. No one in my band has cabs on stage at all, and we don't even have monitors there either (either use side fill or IEMs). Hit the link in my sig to see what my band's all about... it's not your typical band at all

 

[KrisWarrington]

No room to have that large of a setup on stage.

My rig takes about as much space as a person holding a guitar. I've only ever had to use both of my 810s once and that was for an outdoor performance. Indoors my rig with one cab is quite enough. Preamps are nice and i'm not saying everyone doesn't have their own thing. I personally don't like DI. I believe bass shouldn't have to run through the same speakers as everything else during a live event. Even through a tri-stack setup (which usually the low end speaker goes on the bottom) then the bass just drowns everything out, hence making the sound guy turn it down, hence making it useless. You probably use a way different tone than I do, but with my tone that's what happens.

 

[KrisWarrington]

Plus I don't stuff like you do (I looked at the site) Hence I don't need acres of room for all those people.

 

[Selta]

My rig takes about as much space as a person holding a guitar. I've only ever had to use both of my 810s once and that was for an outdoor performance. Indoors my rig with one cab is quite enough. Preamps are nice and i'm not saying everyone doesn't have their own thing. I personally don't like DI. I believe bass shouldn't have to run through the same speakers as everything else during a live event. Even through a tri-stack setup (which usually the low end speaker goes on the bottom) then the bass just drowns everything out, hence making the sound guy turn it down, hence making it useless. You probably use a way different tone than I do, but with my tone that's what happens.

Seems to me that your sound guy does not know what he's doing if that's the case. I'd get a real one instead. I have zero qualm with going DI'd out, and I know it sounds *amazing* out front, especially since the sound guy is out there and making it sound good, not me sitting there with multiple 810s blasting away causing chaos (on stage and at FOH). Not to mention, there is NO room on the stage for gear on my gig. It just would not work at all. Doesn't matter how small it is.
I don't understand the "belief" that bass "shouldn't run through the speakers" that everything else is running through.

 

[KrisWarrington]

Seems to me that your sound guy does not know what he's doing if that's the case. I'd get a real one instead. I have zero qualm with going DI'd out, and I know it sounds *amazing* out front, especially since the sound guy is out there and making it sound good, not me sitting there with multiple 810s blasting away causing chaos (on stage and at FOH). Not to mention, there is NO room on the stage for gear on my gig. It just would not work at all. Doesn't matter how small it is.
I don't understand the "belief" that bass "shouldn't run through the speakers" that everything else is running through.

Usually no, I do sound boarding myself but I can't do everything live. Like I said you are a completely different animal than I am. I play technical death metal which requires 5 people. You play a unique style of music/opera show that requires the mexican army.

 

[pablomigraine]

I have always been a big fan of separates. For years I used a variety of different preamps and other units coupled with a big power amp.... the problem for me was; most of the integrated heads out the simply didn't put out enough power for my needs.... plus I've always found that many manufacturers far overstate the output power of their integrated heads when viewed against PA power amplifiers of the same wattage..... some brands were worse than others in this respect....

However lately I've been going back to integrated heads, because some brands have really gotten the whole Class-D thing sorted out well enough to where the amps feel very powerful and I can have my whole package in a 10lb unit instead of spread across 6 rack spaces and weighing in well over 40lbs....

 

[Gearhead17]

What makes you disown BBE? BBE makes good quality equipment it's really underminded and it could double as a great live amp if you use direct in.

After trying the BBE Sonic Maximizer (I think the 382??) and after reading all the hype surrounding the units, I will not even bother with BBE. The resulting effect of that unit was so useless in a live setting. Plus, since it hurts the midrange in some way, I have no use for it. The extra clarity and supposed better low end is just not helpful in my opinion. In a studio setting, it would be useful. But I was never one to enjoy hearing clean and pretty bass tones on an album. I want to hear the rawness of the bass player and not some polished and "clear sounding" bass line that sounds too perfect.

But like I said before, if you like it, enjoy it!

 

[Dave W]

I'm personally not a fan of directing in to a pa to play through monitors at a set or micing the bass amp (yes some people actually try to mic my stuff) That's why I went with the 1200HD and two G-810Hs. My bass rig can probably be herd from outerspace if I turned it all the way up.

Although loud, I think the FOH sound would suffer from not going through the mains. Let's just say you're playing an arena. You're going to let 16 small speakers carry an authoritative tone to the people sitting in the nose bleeds seats?

Why are you not a fan of DI's or micing a cab? How do you get any sound at all when recording?

In all seriousness though I believe having a preamp rack instead of just a regular head would help achieve more tones than head could ever give.

What are you considering a preamp rack? A basic pre/power setup, or something more complicated with additional gear in it? Like yours...

Every "head" has a preamp built into it already. Achieving more tones would be dependent on what they had available as far as features go. My Ampeg SVP-CL is a preamp, and has pretty much the same overall tones as an SVT-CL or SVT 3 since they are all basically using the same preamp. Are they exact? Not at all.

Then again you bring in the argument of effect processors and pedals (Which I choose to never use any). It's a big laundry list of things that could be but my live tone will NEVER match my studio tone which all you have to do is DI me into whatever mixer you have and hit the record button and let the rack do the rest.

For you live rig...your DBX 166xs and DBX 215s are both processors.

For your studio rig, all you have to do is DI you into whatever mixer and hit record? After you plug into a preamp, a 31 band EQ, a limiter, a compressor, a gate, and a sonic maximizer...