I have to ask some opinions on today’s amps. Do you think what we buy today will still be working in say, 20 years. I brought a peavey 115 combo in 2002 and when I sold it last year, it was still in fairly good condition. I’ve got an ampeg SVT 1000 that still sounds good and those were released in 2004. Same thing with my Traynor YBA200 with the exception of a dirty input jack and that’s an easy fix. My dad has a fender guitar amp he got in 1995 that is still his go to amp. He got a Princeton reverb a couple of years ago brand new and he already replaced two fuses in it. I do remember him having his peavey mega bass head worked on several times. He always swore that heads had more problems than combo’s. I also know that the more you buy, the more lemons you will run into. I’m just asking, how do you think the new stuff like darkglass will hold up being that this new stuff is mostly digital these days? And quality control has gone downhill in everything today due to a variety of reasons, and I know it’s something we have to deal with for the time being.
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Amp longevity
- Thread starter Cory rich40
- Start date
You are probably going to have to wait and see. I have some old GK 2000RB that were made in the 90s. I think this model always had reliability issues. Several of the semi-conductors are considered obsolete, so repairing certain types of damage would be difficult.
Until recently, amps with MOSFET class AB output sections were very popular. Now Class D pretty much dominates the market and production of many of the old MOSFETs has stopped.
AFAIK, most modern amps actually use off the shelf Class D modules. In some instances component level repair is difficult and it's more cost effective to use black box maintenance. Black box maintenance means you swap out the entire sub assembly instead of replacing discrete bad components.
As companies introduce newer models they eventually stop making the sub assemblies for the older amps. Even if parts are available and component level repair can be performed on the sub-assemblies, there are less and less people who are capable of doing the work. IMHO electronics are definitely getting more and more disposable.
As far a long term reliability. Some modern amps will last longer and/or be more repairable than others.
Until recently, amps with MOSFET class AB output sections were very popular. Now Class D pretty much dominates the market and production of many of the old MOSFETs has stopped.
AFAIK, most modern amps actually use off the shelf Class D modules. In some instances component level repair is difficult and it's more cost effective to use black box maintenance. Black box maintenance means you swap out the entire sub assembly instead of replacing discrete bad components.
As companies introduce newer models they eventually stop making the sub assemblies for the older amps. Even if parts are available and component level repair can be performed on the sub-assemblies, there are less and less people who are capable of doing the work. IMHO electronics are definitely getting more and more disposable.
As far a long term reliability. Some modern amps will last longer and/or be more repairable than others.
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Good quality gear will last, junk probably won’t.
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- Endorsing Artist: Used Fender Lead Sleds and Hartke cabs with bent grills
When I took my old lead sled head to a tech today we had a long discussion about modern class D vs old AB amps. Specifically about Peavey. He is an EE (I think) and a bass player who has been working on amps for a long time. He still uses a PV CS800 power amp, which was my first PA amp 40 years ago, and a couple of old GK 1000 and 700 heads. He and I agree that PV has gone to crap. He says when someone brings in a newer PV class D amp he tells them (seriously) "Throw it away and buy something else". Says they're not economically worth repairing. Dunno if that's true or not. But it seems this applies to many companies today, sadly.
For my part, I don't think I'd ever buy a class D head that wasn't Mesa or Genz. Maybe Darkglass, Aguilar, or Hartke.
YMMV.
For my part, I don't think I'd ever buy a class D head that wasn't Mesa or Genz. Maybe Darkglass, Aguilar, or Hartke.
YMMV.
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I still have the much poo-pooed mid-90s Hartke 3500 MOSFET TA head. It even has the original DBX one-knob compressor chipset. It works perfectly, and has never exploded like forum users would lead you to believe was endemic to that specific model.
The only thing I did was replace the stock tube that never, ever sounded right. The amp works great, but the back of the case somehow acquired enough contamination to rust a bit. I haven't used it much in 15 years.
The only thing I did was replace the stock tube that never, ever sounded right. The amp works great, but the back of the case somehow acquired enough contamination to rust a bit. I haven't used it much in 15 years.
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In 40 years gigging on guitar and bass I'll bet I've seen at least 50 of those old Hartkes in a back line. Of course I dunno if they were the Mos version. They were almost as ubiquitous as the big Peavey combos. You could always get something usable out of them.
Ok, as far as fender amps go, I know the rumbles are made in Indonesia. The pro bassman series is made in Mexico. Some ampeg’s are made in China while a few like the SVT heritage are still made in the USA. I know in today’s world, where it’s made doesn’t necessarily matter, but I still think that you get what you pay for. A cheap amp with high wattage is probably likely to be junk. All of the big names do have their budget lines too.
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In this case I do not agree, and I don't think I would categorize the Rumble amps (at least the 350 and 500) as cheap or junk. They are a more value based product but towards the top of their price range for this type of product and I think their reliability is pretty well established.
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That's another thing I don't understand about PV ... Rumbles and Hartkes are MIC and are generally considered reliable. PV must have something else happening since they can't seem to get it together over there. AFAIK only their Classic line seemed to stay reliable when they moved production. As a former Mfg Engineer it's a bit of a mystery. If the design is solid, and other companies have pulled it off, why did they start having problems after the move? Using cheaper components than Fender or Hartke, maybe?
I just know it bugs me, as a life long PV fanboi.
I just know it bugs me, as a life long PV fanboi.
The Rumbles I have played sound awesome. And almost a pleasure to load up. As you get older, weight matters too
My PV combo was built like a tank, but compared to the rumble, that thing had a muddy sound. But when I got it, that muddy sound seemed to be what folks wantedThat's another thing I don't understand about PV ... Rumbles and Hartkes are MIC and are generally considered reliable. PV must have something else happening since they can't seem to get it together over there. AFAIK only their Classic line seemed to stay reliable when they moved production. As a former Mfg Engineer it's a bit of a mystery. If the design is solid, and other companies have pulled it off, why did they start having problems after the move? Using cheaper components than Fender or Hartke, maybe?
I just know it bugs me, as a life long PV fanboi.
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TNT 115. It was heavy and awkward for one person to carry. Not as bad as the peavey cabinet it replaced though. That one actually belonged to my dad. It was either 210’s and an 18, or 3 10’s and an 18. I think it was the mega bass. I was 14 when I started on the bass, and the mega bass was the amp I started on. I remember loading that thing up many a night, and it was heavy for 2 people. I ended up buying the peavey TNT in 2002 and dad sold the mega bass rig to a church. I actually think the mega bass sounded better than the TNT.One man's "mud" is another man's "deep" I reckon.
Which PV combo was it?
A large part of reliability and longevity, is maintenance.
A lot of those old tube amps that are still going 50 years later have had a LOT of work to keep them going, with an often simplistic design. Todays better amps, when properly maintained should last pretty well, but in todays market of consumerism, I would think specialised parts like chips, motherboards etc. may become harder to find in 10 years, let alone 25.
A lot of those old tube amps that are still going 50 years later have had a LOT of work to keep them going, with an often simplistic design. Todays better amps, when properly maintained should last pretty well, but in todays market of consumerism, I would think specialised parts like chips, motherboards etc. may become harder to find in 10 years, let alone 25.
You should try the Rumble Stage 800. It's an awesome amp - they really got the modelling aspect right - it's really easy to craft tones on that thing. It's also really clear sounding. Even the "dubbiest" programmed patches have a reasonable amount of top-end clarity.
No need to be afraid of the digital component.
No need to be afraid of the digital component.
For me the big thing about Peavey was the weight. We had a great Peavey TNT combo in one of our rehearsal spaces, but it was painful for a relatively meek guy like me to carry around. Even getting it on and off the dolly seemed like it wanted to fight you every step of the way.
It’s funny. I have that amp and you are right. It sounds awesome and it was influenced by fender’s mustang guitar amp. But the mustang couldn’t quite get it right from everything I have read. Now, the tone master series is a different story. It’s digital too, but it’s only designed to sound like one amp which is the reverb series. That rumble stage is awesome but it would be nice if they came out with a tone master bass amp that could do the all tube bassman amps and super bassman amp. I know, there is the bassman 500 and 800 hybrid heads, with the pre amp tubes, and they sound awesome too, but do one without the tubes that’s digital like the tone master. Give it the look of the bassman. Ampeg did something similar with their not so popular SVT 450 and SVT 1000 series. It looked just like the SVT classic. It didn’t quite get the sound of the classic though, but now with the tone master, we know fender has the technology to pull it off
