instead of going into audio behavioral characteristics you'll probably find when a cabinet is up on a stand or raised off the floor you lose some of the lows, of course based on what you're looking for this may be preferable, if rasing it gets it closer to ear height it may seem 'louder' to you while less obtrusive to the others in the band -give it a try and see if it works, if they're still whining a couple of Exlax candy bars might be in order
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Amp on stand?
- Thread starter aprod
- Start date
"So physics stops applying to you because you're louder and deeper than me? And who says you're deeper? I've taken to cranking some pretty significant low end lately. There are even times when I throw out the Talkbass rulebook and turn the bass knob up all the way. Yeah, that's right. And I may play too loud for the room tomorrow, too, although that'll be tough on an outdoor gig with thousands there 
"
-awesome comment Jimmy, has an honest to goodness 'Francis Sawyer' feel to it
"-awesome comment Jimmy, has an honest to goodness 'Francis Sawyer' feel to it
I always was a fullstack-guy, the smallest rig was a 410''-cab with my SWR Redhead on it. I had no problems hearing me, and now I know, why.
OK, for bigger venues, I still use full stacks or a 810''-cab, so I get all the sound direct to my ears. But I was impressed with the way of hearing my sound when using the small Ibanez Promethean 5110. You can unfold a small "wedge" that is mounted under the cab to make the speaker point to your ears. You don't want stand to near to the cab, because the angle is not high enough, so you need 7 - 9 feet (2 - 3 m) of distance to get the full effect.
So I flip over the wedge, and I am able to hear myself within low volumes. Fine thing.
BTW, Markbass sells a rubber wedge, too.
OK, for bigger venues, I still use full stacks or a 810''-cab, so I get all the sound direct to my ears. But I was impressed with the way of hearing my sound when using the small Ibanez Promethean 5110. You can unfold a small "wedge" that is mounted under the cab to make the speaker point to your ears. You don't want stand to near to the cab, because the angle is not high enough, so you need 7 - 9 feet (2 - 3 m) of distance to get the full effect.
So I flip over the wedge, and I am able to hear myself within low volumes. Fine thing.
BTW, Markbass sells a rubber wedge, too.
I'll take that as the awesome compliment it was no doubt intended to be."So physics stops applying to you because you're louder and deeper than me? And who says you're deeper? I've taken to cranking some pretty significant low end lately. There are even times when I throw out the Talkbass rulebook and turn the bass knob up all the way. Yeah, that's right. And I may play too loud for the room tomorrow, too, although that'll be tough on an outdoor gig with thousands there
-awesome comment Jimmy, has an honest to goodness 'Francis Sawyer' feel to it
Jim Carr
Dr. Jim
- Jan 21, 2006
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I am honestly intrigued by this discussion for two reasons.
1. I remember a number of gigs in a certain "Lou's Pier 47" where the bassist raised his creaky no-name cab about 18" above a 24" stage in a small 2nd fl. venue along the San Francisco waterfront, and it killed. Head was some old GK, and the bass was a 74 P-bass.
I cannot explain why Dee's tone was so loud, deep, clear, transparent, and balanced all at once, but the elevated cabinet seemed to speak with the clarity JimmyM implies.
2. I use several powerful gigs, and never have trouble being heard by me—even when not in the PA. This worries me, because I know I am LOUD on stage.
1. I remember a number of gigs in a certain "Lou's Pier 47" where the bassist raised his creaky no-name cab about 18" above a 24" stage in a small 2nd fl. venue along the San Francisco waterfront, and it killed. Head was some old GK, and the bass was a 74 P-bass.
I cannot explain why Dee's tone was so loud, deep, clear, transparent, and balanced all at once, but the elevated cabinet seemed to speak with the clarity JimmyM implies.
2. I use several powerful gigs, and never have trouble being heard by me—even when not in the PA. This worries me, because I know I am LOUD on stage.
Nope, volume is immaterial and the deeper the frequency you are concerned with the higher you can lift the cab before it causes the floor coupling to be lost. Since we all need our 80hz 2.5 ft is the limit.
I put my cab way up on top of my amp and table to stop my DB from feeding back.
Yes, we all know that really loud volumes make your ears hear things more accurately and won't fatigue them much quicker than playing at reasonable volumes.
I play geezer rock at tea & crumpet volumes; K-6 rock at blowtorch volumes; frat-boy rock at Munsingwear volumes; yuppie 30-something rock at BMW volumes; stoner rock at 420; and of course, dirty, greasy low-down diaper rock at volumes that put the screw in excruciating. And of course, bar mitzvahs.
Exlax bars are why the geezer-rock crowd keeps asking me to come back. Diapers ain't just for infinks ya' know.
Seriousness aside, what has this taught me?
1). The goal is two-fold: get a nice balance in the house, and feel comfortable on a stage playing music with other musicians (which entails being able to hear everyone else in the band adequately while savoring each and every one of my vast array of screw-ups).
2). Most gigs, everything goes through the house system. If I bother to bring my own rig, its either for a rehearsal, or for additional stage fill to achieve the comfort goal as stated above. To attain the objectives, sometimes I puts the speaker flat on the floor, sometimes I tilts it back, sometimes I grabs me a nice empty beer keg or a chair.
3). If someone complains that Im too loud, how I adjust depends upon a-just who's just sayin.
4). Hsech gets credit for the best answer: if indeed Im too loud, theres almost always a knob somewhere, often labeled volume, that comes factory-installed, requires no additional purchase, and doesnt need any schleppin' around. Magic, that.
And now back to your regularly-scheduled programming.
You can say whatever you want, but the truth is that I have experienced a very real difference between playing an 810, or a 410 that's elevated - but both at the same overall volume - and it's a difference that I don't like... It's fine if it works for you, but it doesn't for me - and to me, that's the bottom line...
Ever heard the expression, "if it sounds good, it is good"??? - this is one of those times...
- georgestrings
Yes, we all know that really loud volumes make your ears hear things more accurately and won't fatigue them much quicker than playing at reasonable volumes.
Sure, and we all know that there's a big diffference between playing hard rock at fairly loud stage volumes thru big rigs, and playing geezer rock thru dinky little combos at TV volumes - I don't know why you even bother to argue it, since deep down you know it's true, also...
- georgestrings
I second this. I've used one (well, from Brico over here because we don't have Home Depot, but it's the exact same product) for over a year too, and with a 82lb 410 cab on it (TS RS410). Couldn't be happier: strong, sturdy and stable, perfect dimensions for a 410, perfect heigth for me, light and sufficiently compact for transport. It is rather cheap too.
I always felt like it could easily handle a lot more weight (which according to the specs it should) and remain stable.
The only reason I'm not using it anymore is because I'm now using two RS210's stacked vertically. Much better: the cabs are easier on my back, smaller footprint, and the stand is one more thing I don't have to bring.
No problem for the stand though: it is nowing living it's second life in the renovation projects of my house.
His own words:
"Ampeg B-15N, Micro VR or PF350 with one or two SVT 210av's, BA110, BA108 (but only on my smallest of small gigs)."
He probably does use an SVT/810 rig *sometimes*, but even then it's not being pushed hard at all - he has commented in the past that the band leader on one of his gigs doesn't want to hear bass on stage, and he hasn't been able to use his own SVT for awhile... Our playing situations are nothing alike - and to compare them is hardly valid - that's all I'm saying...
- georgestrings
D
Dial back some low bass and add a little lowmids instead if you need to to get a fat tone.
Use a wireless, really long cord, or have a friend play your bass so you can get out where your audience is and adjust the sound so it sounds good out there. Just deal with whatever that sounds like on stage...usually a little shy in the bass and a little more middy than you might like.
Using a stand or tilting the cab back some is fine if you need to hear better.
Jimmy and the Downunderwonder are right. Due to the wavelengths in play, you have to get higher than 2-2.5 ft. before actually losing any lowend. You hear that for yourself when you're out in the room. The sound up close is a result of hearing the rest of the bandwidth better in comparison to the lows. Some may disagree, but these are proven rules of sound propagation. Ears and brains are funny things, they can be easily tricked.
If you're up against a wall, you're getting even more bass for free die to more coupling, so you can turn the bass knob down even further. Not saying don't have any bass in your sound...just the right amount. As a little experiment, turn your bass knob all the way down, use the other knobs to set up as good a sound as you can, then bring up the bass knob enough to fill in what's missing.
When you setup the tone like that while listening from out in the audience, you'll hear how easy it is to muddy up the room because that sounds good next to the rig.
When you setup the tone like that while listening from out in the audience, you'll hear how easy it is to muddy up the room because that sounds good next to the rig.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
The most important thing is to not set up where you're right at or standing over your amp. Even if you tilt it, you'll still never hear yourself. In those cases I have to have some sort of a monitor set up sending some bass back AT me, otherwise I'm miserable for the entire gig.
I give up. I'm obviously stupid for believing what trained audio scientists have said for years, and I'm old and feeble and need to be put out to pasture. And you are young and vital and don't need to rely on such stupid things as science.
