Amp Size - When does it stop mattering?

[Bassamatic]

Interesting you mention the MB CMD 121P That is what I have and when I use it with the Schroeder 1212L cabinet - I have 3 x 12s, 500 REAL watts and louder than H. With the add-on cab I never go past 11 O'clock on the master volume.

Plus I can carry both pcs in at the same time (in my hands), each 30+ lbs and it all fits in my car trunk!

Indoors, for up to 200 people or so, the 121 P is PLENTY loud. Rattles the stage!

 

[svtb15]

I just did a stadium gig in europe with one 810 and my genz streamliner head.... But i rely on the IEMs and monitors , sides and floor wedges.. in a room that big.. With IEMs getting the DI off the amp I could just go with the streamliner DI and no cab..... I posted a few pics in the Streamliner thread

 

[zachoff]

From a noise making perspective... Anything more than a single 810 is silly & any amp over 500W is overkill. IMO, of course. Although rows of 810s & all that is pretty rad to look at.

 

[scottfeldstein]

I haven't played a gig that large in many years, but I spent a lot of time doing sound/lights for other groups who did it regularly. I'd say get 700-1000w and an 8x10 cab or equivalent (2x15 + 4x10, etc). More starts to seem excessive, but less will probably at some point leave you wishing you had it.

 

[JimmyM]

No rig is overkill if you as the player enjoy it. I've used my SVT/810 on gigs my Micro VR and 210AV could easily handle, and I've used a 25w B-15 on arena shows. They're right that with a PA, what you use for an amp becomes pretty unimportant...except to you, and if you're happy using a wall of 810's, that's all that matters.

 

[Spencer!]

Anything's possible with PA systems and in-ears, but there's really no feeling like standing in front of an 810.

 

[Skygoneblue]

Well, whatever I get needs to fit into a Saturn Vue...

You guys think there's any merit in looking into a 2x10 combo amp (like a Redhead or Markbass) and potentially getting a 1x15 extension later? Or would a simple head and 4x10 be better off straight from the beginning?

 

[scottfeldstein]

I'd choose the latter. Only because I think ultimately you're going to want more speakers. Getting a 2x10 combo will always limit you, no matter what external cab you hook up to it. I know, I have one.

 

[Nate74]

If you don't have an amp on stage, where do you set your beer?

 

[Jeff Scott]

If you don't have an amp on stage, where do you set your beer?

Drum riser, of course!

 

[GM60466]

SVT

 

[Marty Forrer]

I've done many 3000-4000 people shows, and 300 watts is the biggest I've had in the last 25 years.

 

[Kael]

If you are being asked about amps, it sounds like you are being setup with backlines. Ask for an 810. They are standard fare for any rental company and easy to get. They are big and heavy, but the company sullpying the backline can deal with that issue. Added advantage is that if they supply a wimpy amp (it WILL happen eventually) having that large a cab allows you to get whatever volume level you need. Sure you most likely don't need that much cab, but it is far better to have it and not need it than to not have it and wish you did.

If you are schlepping the gear yourself, have them supply a 410 (on casters!) and a decent solid state head with around 300 to 500 watts and be done with it. Sure there are better amps, but that setup is easy to use and find.


I do a lot of ampless gigs. Hell, I've been on tours without bringing an amp. It usually works but there are times it sucks. Then again, moving amps/cabs yourself sucks too.

 

[Sundogue]

It stops mattering when it stops mattering. Until then, it will matter.

And it's going to be different for everybody. Because what matters to one person won't matter to another.

 

[countrybassist]

To me it quit mattering when we started playing large venues and we have substantial PA support. The FOH was only getting my bass DI'ed anyways so..

 

[scottfeldstein]

Every ensemble has its own natural volume level, but large venues tend to have large stages. Large stages mean you're likely to spread out more. When you spread out more, you're likely to turn up because you're further away from your own amp and everyone else is further away from you. Also, a large venue will have a large PA. Sometimes in order to hear yourself correctly you have to turn your amp up over the dull rumble of the PA (which is of course faced away from you) or even the slap-back of it reflecting off the far wall. Monitoring helps, of course, but even large venues often don't offer adequate bass monitoring.

All of which is to say, if you play large venues regularly I think you should have a full stack of cabs and over 500w to drive them. You may not always need that, but you will sometimes. 700-1000w, an 8x10 or 4x10 + 2x15. The only thing that might deter me from this prescription would be if I had to carry and transport the equipment myself in my own vehicle.

 

[chokeslam512]

I run a Shuttle 12.0 with an Uber 212 and a Schroeder 1212+L. Without PA support I have it up maybe 30%. With PA support, I will only bring one cab depending on how little room there is. Sometimes I'll prop my cab up so it acts as a monitor for me. I like to have headroom so I'm not pushing the amp to it's limits, this way the risk of failure is reduced and the tone is still clean.

 

[hdracer]

If you don't have an amp on stage, where do you set your beer?

You set your beer on your amp?
I don't know about your amp but mine would have that beer hot & skunked in one song (great for keeping a order of fry's warm though). I don't like the thought of it spilling on my amp ether.

+1 to the drum riser.

 

[ZiggyDude]

Overall I agree with scottfeldstein. And if they are asking about what amp to supply you - then Kael's point is good as everyone knows how to deal with an SVT.

I don't think you have really given us enough info to answer the question. That is why the answers wander from big amp to none. Have you really discussed with the manager why he was asking these questions and what the manager thinks is going to be required?

Regarding 15s vs. 10s. Both are punchy enough if you got quality stuff. The 15s will be heard better laterally across stage while the 10s are a bit more directional and beamy.

If (IF!) a decent amp is required, a 2x10 or 2x12 will not cut it. Outdoor gigs will just suck away your sound. My last one I took vintage, an Acoustic 406wide cab and the 300 watt 370 head. Modern stuff, I would have gone with a cab as large and a head with almost 3 times the power.

- Ziggy -

 

[grendle]

yep, it stops mattering as soon as you have a decent PA. Dont mic the cab unless you like the sound of that particular mic (it wont sound like you). run DI and let the FOH handle it in the mix . you'll sound better. Most of the backline you see bands playing is for show. Other than that your amp is competing with the monitors and they can only be turned up so much before they feed back through the mics and need to be turned down. then you cant hear anything lol