• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Amp vs PA + Sub

You probably don't want to lpf the kick drum, they have a nice click in the 3kHz or so space that you probably want.

Ultimately my friend you are asking the wrong question here. You said that in isolation, with no other instruments present, that you were not able to make the pa sound like your amp. Now, we could question whether or not that is goal worth pursuing, we could question the setup or the methodology, we could question the relevant jobs of pa vs bass amp, whatever. The point is that you seem to lack the personal skills and ability (or possibly the control options on your gear I guess) to make the pa do what you want it to do. That is the first problem to address here.
 
Last edited:
Well, not quite...some component will end up in the subs. I asked earlier about whatever crossover / speaker management is in-play as I have no working knowledge / experience with the tops & subs. You can EQ all day long and still fall short of the goal.

Couple things worth trying....might help, can't hurt:

*Roll-in your HPF on the mic channel or device of your choosing.

*If capable, create an "underlap" between the tops & subs as below:

Subs: HPF ~50 hz (BW18), LPF ~80-90 hz (LR24). Gee, that's a pretty narrow window but there's still plenty of energy / ooomph.

Mains: HPF ~120-140 hz (LR24)

Adjust to taste. This will (should?) remove the mud and unmask the punch.

Riis
I would guess from using similar gear that we're using the crossover in the subs here. Which make me wonder actually: @caballero59 when you come out of the subs to the tops, do you have the button on the sub pressed in to the 'xover' setting? You should.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx
You probably don't want to lpf the kick drum, they have a nice click in the 3kHz or so space that you probably want.

Ultimately my friend you are asking the wrong question here. You said that in isolation, with no other instruments present, that you were not able to make the pa sound like your amp. Now, we could question whether or not that is goal worth pursuing, we could question the setup or the methodology, we could question the relevant jobs of pa vs bass amp, whatever. The point is that you seem to lack the personal skills and ability (or possibly the control options on your gear I guess) to make the pa do what you want it to do. That is the first problem to address here.
The above is true and that’s what we’re trying to help you get past. Also don’t be confused by the above comment about the LPF. When I said set the LPF at 100 to 80, I specified for the subwoofer. You’ll hear 3 kHz he’s speaking from the mains. It’s nice to have small amount of that because it adds a bit of definition to the kick.
 
I would guess from using similar gear that we're using the crossover in the subs here. Which make me wonder actually: @caballero59 when you come out of the subs to the tops, do you have the button on the sub pressed in to the 'xover' setting? You should.

They're convenient and it pretty much ends there...I'd much rather have an external device for added flexibility. I use a dbx DriveRack, which is a really nice crossover once you dispense with the other fluff.

Riis
 
Apologies for just now getting back to responding to this; I've had stuff to do.
Same here. A good PA is somewhat akin to a stereo. What goes in comes out louder. I think it's all in the capture.
An IDEAL PA would do that, but very few PA systems reproduce sound that accurately. Great systems come pretty close but many systems that could be considered 'good' fall considerably short of that ideal.

The reason I think your bass is never going to sound the same through your PA as it does through your bass rig is that the two systems express completely different design goals and concepts. Your bass rig is designed for one purpose, to amplify the bass signal, using drivers selected for that purpose. Your PA speakers are designed to amplify everything, more or less, but with a heavy emphasis on vocal reinforcement. The two-way design, with a compression driver and horn, will yield a very different sonic signature from the start. But in addition to that, all manufacturers of speakers in this category use a great deal of signal processing to coax additional performance out of the relatively small package, as well as to ensure the whole system is relatively 'blowup-proof'. The compression, limiting and EQ algorithms applied in the DSP yield a sound that IS apparently louder but quite a bit different from the input signal. This is not to throw shade on your particular system; it's characteristic of all the speakers in this category, although some implementations are better than others. When things get loud, your bass rig is going to sound fine -- like a bass rig. But your PA rig is going to sound compressed, with apparently reduced headroom and dynamic range. This is addition to the equalization curve that's likely implemented to emphasize the vocal range. Although this could maybe be EQ'ed out, it doesn't do much to enhance a bass signal, while your bass speakers, running essentially full-range, uncompressed, and exhibiting natural response roll-off, sound more like what a bass SHOULD sound like, at least IMO. This strays somewhat into the area of systems being designed for sound production vs. those designed for RE-production -- a system intended to be part of the characteristic sound of an instrument rather than a wide-range sound system intended primarily to amplify vocals and acoustic instruments.

Disclaimer: I was an audio engineer and system designer for my entire working career, but I'm retired now and haven't heard any systems like this that have been designed recently. Maybe they've gotten better, but I'm skeptical. DSP and the close coupling between amps and drivers in a self-powered system enable a lot of performance advantages, but the various implementations can produce audible inaccuracies. Designing any sort of speaker system involves balancing a number of compromises and trade-offs, resulting in different systems that perform quite differently and that may perform one particular task better than another.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: caballero59
I prefer amps and don't put my bass through the P.A with a sub although the kick goes there. I find it easy to live with the kit..and this ad hoc mix invaribly works unless a ridiculous room, and even then, i reduce the bass frequencies and just move on.
Unless you are running a FOH engr, I don't complicate anything...my bass sound and the kit and that's it. We generally get compliments on our sound so we up set up and ready to go in an hr.
 
I prefer amps and don't put my bass through the P.A with a sub although the kick goes there. I find it easy to live with the kit..and this ad hoc mix invaribly works unless a ridiculous room, and even then, i reduce the bass frequencies and just move on.
Unless you are running a FOH engr, I don't complicate anything...my bass sound and the kit and that's it. We generally get compliments on our sound so we up set up and ready to go in an hr.
So easy to get a good tone out of the Markbass mini stack. However, I haven't tried micing the Markbass because that ups the complexity right off the bat. When I added the New York 121 extension, I was surprised how much hit this little rig has.
 
We run a Sub and 2 1000w tops. Not concerned what the real watts might be on that but its enough for a courtyard or garden with 200 people..likely more.

Never run bass through the P.A for this type of gig. I find my 500w of cabs is plenty capable. When I review the mix/songs recorded off a decent..but not special phone...the bass is well up in the mix.

I am not at all convinced I'd gain much significantly if we upped the ante with a bigger P.A which would be twice the cost and twice the work.
If we hired in, that might be different
 
  • Like
Reactions: caballero59

Latest posts