amp without controls to just be everything you want

[tedious1]

perhaps as both show-goers and performer(s) could check-in at the door (kiosk type), a computer could/would average their preferred tone, the amp would then deliver the results requested, maybe as pandora delivers

We don't need this, it would be too restrictive for many, if not most players. Those who do need this, may I suggest quick-setting epoxy?

 

[HolmeBass]

I like knobs on my amps. They're fun to turn!

But that's just my own personal preference.

I think the OP's inquiry is an interesting one. Out of the box thinking for sure. I like that!

Meh, I like rigorous out-of-the-box thinking that gives answers and possibilities, not sloppy magical thinking that just poses impossibilities without any path forward.

 

[Rumbledore]

Meh, I like rigorous out-of-the-box thinking that gives answers and possibilities, not sloppy magical thinking that just poses impossibilities without any path forward.

ugh. brewing has commenced

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

ugh. brewing has commenced

If I stare at your avatar long enough, after a couple of brews, it looks like a goat.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

If I stare at your avatar long enough, after a couple of brews, it looks like a goat.

I stared at your Avatar and saw myself being chased by you swinging a Bass yelling, "Get off my lawn!" as myself and @Fat Freddy run away with your beer.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I stared at your Avatar and saw myself being chased by you swinging a Bass yelling, "Get off my lawn!" as myself and @Fat Freddy run away with your beer.

You don’t have to be faster than the OGB, just faster than the other guy.

Hold my lawn and watch this beer.

 

[SactoBass]

Meh, I like rigorous out-of-the-box thinking that gives answers and possibilities, not sloppy magical thinking that just poses impossibilities without any path forward.

Well, as I said, I prefer amps with knobs. Every amp I've owned since the early 70's has had knobs. It allows me to sculpt my sound differently depending on the song. I like that! But that's me. I'm not the OP. If the OP wants to dream up an idea (as crazy as it may sound to some folks), then who am I to tell him not to? I remember back in the 60's when I was in elementary school, someone on the playground (I think it was one of the teachers) told me that one day we would all have cordless phones and we would be able to stand out in the middle of the playground and talk to others on cordless phones. I recall responding in a disbelieving sarcastic way "yeah right....and just how is *THAT* gonna work?" And 10 years from now, a fair percentage of the cars on the road will be driverless. Imagine if I told that to someone 50 years ago. They would think I'm a loon!

I also recall reading somewhere that back when upright basses were the norm, when the electric "Fender bass" was invented (and was to be played horizontally of all crazy things), someone said that it was just a fad that would pass within a few years.

I for one would not be interested in a bass amp that automatically adjusts itself. I prefer to do the adjusting. But that's just me. I don't expect others to think like me or want or like the same things as me. If the OP wishes to invent something that currently doesn't exist because that's what he wants to do, then cool! And if it turns out to be an impossibility to invent it, then he will discover that as part of the process. At least it has given us TB'ers something to talk about in this thread!

 

[Deleted member 165050]

And simply CAN'T exist. Because "everyone" will not agree on what they want to hear, so a single solution that satisfies "everyone" does not exist.

So clearly, the amplifier has to modify the audience through remote mind control to either think they're hearing what they want, or to all want to hear the same thing. These are only people after all, not musicians.

 

[SactoBass]

So clearly, the amplifier has to modify the audience through remote mind control to either think they're hearing what they want, or to all want to hear the same thing.

Hmmm....yeah! Maybe have the combo amp with this as a grill screen:

 

[agedhorse]

You aren't comprehending how zeroing in a PA system with an RTA works. It can be done automatically, and often is. No buttons or knobs need to be touched by human hands, other than the one that tells the system to begin the calibration process. Everything else happens in-the-box.

Whether the results of that process sound good or not is subjective. There are RTA systems that allow you to pre-program it to find flat response, then add and subtract certain user defined frequencies as a step of the automated process.

This is something that currently exists and has, with varying degrees of automation, for decades. It is a very old concept in sound design.

Sure, for a single point in the audience space this is true BUT there are many points within this space, and no single point will utilize the same equalization (there's a lot more to this than just eq) to achieve identical response. There is a certain amount of judgement that goes into designing a system for the room, and THEN implementing the system to give the desired results to the most people possible. Some of this takes into account translating the band's artistic desired into the mix of the day, and some of it is a day to day judgement call.

If you want consistency, playback of a recorded piece through headphones would be the most consistent, Tt should be noted that people's ears vary from day to day and throughout the day, so again there is no single solution that can accurately account for this within a varying time frame.

great! then pleas show me a combo amp similar to the form factor of a rumble 200, that listens to the room, then collectively provides what everyone subconsciously, and objectively wants to hear. doesn’t exist.

It's not going to happen, because your assumption that everybody subconsciously wants to hear the same thing is absurdly wrong. This is why it doesn't exist, and why designers like myself wouldn't even consider the concept.

 

[Rich Fiscus]

OK. Anyone remember Drew A. Kaplan, and his hi fi stereo catalog of gear marketed under the name D.A.K. ?
Would have been back in the eighties and nineties. He had a lot of cool looking and some cool operating stuff. His catalogs read like a used car salesman on steroids.

Of the two things I ever purchased from D.A.K. one was a graphic equalizer with built in analyzer and “reference” microphone.

The idea was to set up the mic at your primary stereo listening point, turn on the analyzer function which included a pink (I think) noise generator. Then you would set the EQ adjustments to make the room flat. It wasn’t automatic but you usually only needed to do it once.

The problem was that with my entertainment system set to compensate for the room. It sounded dull and lifeless.
I would end up setting things for a smiley face scoop on the EQ sliders to make it sound to my liking.

So constant, or even manually adjusting a bass amp to compensate for the room probably wouldn’t work out too well for being heard in the mix. You usually want to go more for a frowny face (inverted scoop) so you have mids enhanced to cut through the mix.

Oh BTW, the other D.A.K. purchase I made was a bread machine. I actually liked it much better than the EQ box.

DAK Industries - Wikipedia

I used to pore over those catalogs when I was in high school, and I thought that equalizer seemed brilliant. Of course I didn't even have the slightest idea of what pink noise even was or how it would help auto eq a stereo, but I sure wanted one.

 

[lz4005]

Sure, for a single point in the audience space this is true BUT there are many points within this space, and no single point will utilize the same equalization (there's a lot more to this than just eq) to achieve identical response.

Absolutely. I wasn't saying any of that was the right thing to do, only that OP's general idea of automated freqency analysis and compensation has been done.

 

[2BitHack]

i like the amp to be classy with sound and not have a button or knobs that adjust anything so a true sound can come out. i have a dream that a amp will be so you don’t do anything to “get there”. Even volume not have a button or knobs, so it’s automatic that listens to the room and makes it do everything. amp will have noise sensors that evaluate every situation and mix possible. there will be algorithms, but all analog. how about a bass amp for a live concert to adjust itself and will cut through by itself? can it be the future?

Sorry the correct Unicorn call is "woo loo loo, woo loo loo". You're never going to catch 1 with all that.

 

[Acoop]

A great instrument is a great start, one that makes a count in to any tune a perfect place to be. ...
I'm on a similar search/path as you but, have decided less is more. Two years ago I bought a Radial Bassbone and ran all my basses, upright and electric through channel one and depended on the notch filter instead of the Ch #2 tone controls. ... Once you get use to it it's great. ... Then I tried a Avalon U5 while recoding and was blown away and bought one. ... Now I have a very warm sounding preamp and 6-great tone settings. ... I feel I've narrowed down likelyhood of tone-irritance, so I can just accept what's there and concentrate on just playing my instruments. ...

 

[Deleted member 165050]

OK. Anyone remember Drew A. Kaplan, and his hi fi stereo catalog of gear marketed under the name D.A.K. ?
Would have been back in the eighties and nineties. He had a lot of cool looking and some cool operating stuff. His catalogs read like a used car salesman on steroids.

Of the two things I ever purchased from D.A.K. one was a graphic equalizer with built in analyzer and “reference” microphone.

The idea was to set up the mic at your primary stereo listening point, turn on the analyzer function which included a pink (I think) noise generator. Then you would set the EQ adjustments to make the room flat. It wasn’t automatic but you usually only needed to do it once.

The problem was that with my entertainment system set to compensate for the room. It sounded dull and lifeless.
I would end up setting things for a smiley face scoop on the EQ sliders to make it sound to my liking.

So constant, or even manually adjusting a bass amp to compensate for the room probably wouldn’t work out too well for being heard in the mix. You usually want to go more for a frowny face (inverted scoop) so you have mids enhanced to cut through the mix.

The problem with analyzer EQ is it is only correct for the volume level you set it it at with the number of people that are in the room when you do it. Fletcher Munson curves and all that.

 

[40Hz]

First rule when it comes to technology: Don’t expect miracles unless you have the budget to pay for them.

One problem with your idea…

What happens when every amp in the room has the same capabilities? And what happens when two of them disagree with each other and start repeatedly adjusting and counter-adjusting their settings in response? A situation that those of us in the IT network world refer to as a “deadly embrace.”

Answer: you end up in the same situation when two players in a band start playing Dueling Settings.

So the technology you’re proposing inevitably brings you back full circle to exactly where you were before you got fancy intelligent amps.

As @lz4005 suggested earlier, to work effectively that type of automation has to be handled on a systemwide (i.e. FOH/stage monitor) level rather than by a “smart amp” approach.

 

[buldog5151bass]

1. Everyone has different ears and sonic desires, not to mention basses. There is no one size fits all tone.
2. Every room is different, and sometimes you have to adjust.

 

[br1qbat]

are you just being funny? im speaking english. and it seems like you would understand exactly what i meant. if not :sigh:, my comment refers to all the posts above that say an engender must be at a mixing console (which literally have the knobs and buttons). knobs and buttons must completely be excluded form this design. you seem to understand what literalism is. no offense

What about faders? Those are ok, are they not?

So you want a combo that adapts, without any input from you or anyone else, to your perfect tone (sorry, THE ONE perfect tone) that of course will also sit perfectly in a mix in any situation, but NO DI, no spectrum analyzers, no nothing. But its gotta be an amp of some sort? And of course it does all that plus make any bass plugged into it magically also the same perfect tone.

Sounds simple enough.

 

[buldog5151bass]

What about faders? Those are ok, are they not?

So you want a combo that adapts, without any input from you or anyone else, to your perfect tone (sorry, THE ONE perfect tone) that of course will also sit perfectly in a mix in any situation, but NO DI, no spectrum analyzers, no nothing. But its gotta be an amp of some sort? And of course it does all that plus make any bass plugged into it magically also the same perfect tone.

Sounds simple enough.

You have to know where to look. They're right next to the left handed smoke shifters, the evaporated water, and the pet unicorns.

 

[Engle]

Sure, for a single point in the audience space this is true BUT there are many points within this space, and no single point will utilize the same equalization (there's a lot more to this than just eq) to achieve identical response. There is a certain amount of judgement that goes into designing a system for the room, and THEN implementing the system to give the desired results to the most people possible. Some of this takes into account translating the band's artistic desired into the mix of the day, and some of it is a day to day judgement call.

If you want consistency, playback of a recorded piece through headphones would be the most consistent, Tt should be noted that people's ears vary from day to day and throughout the day, so again there is no single solution that can accurately account for this within a varying time frame.



It's not going to happen, because your assumption that everybody subconsciously wants to hear the same thing is absurdly wrong. This is why it doesn't exist, and why designers like myself wouldn't even consider the concept.

Ahh the voice of reason...