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Ampeg B-15N: best replacement speaker today
- Thread starter boroman
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- ampeg b-15n replacement speaker
daveobieone
Providing the "musical foundation" since 1966
Reviving an old thread here...
Honestly, I would have been overjoyed if my B15n had sounded like those videos with the original CTS driver in it. It didn't. Sounded like "all Reggae, all the time". No mids, no highs, just just boomy bass without very much definition.
I tried a JBL E140, but it was too bright for my tastes, and lost the mellow low freqs of the CTS completely. Also needed to double the gasket ring because the cone kept banging against the baffle board. Still didn't sound good though....and I'm normally a big fan of those speakers. I have them in some other amps. Yes, it was all original, not a recone.
Then I tired an Altec 421-8H. WOW, what an improvement. More output than the CTS. Bout the same as the JBL. But, the low end was really deep and mellow, and the mids were punchy and much improved over the CTS, but tamer than the JBL. Kept what I liked about the original B15 sound, but made it sound a little more modern if that makes sense...and much louder. To the point where it's actually useful for something other than recording or home practice.
It also became a fine guitar amp btw with that Altec in there.
My understanding is that Ampeg offered an Altec 421 of some variety as an optional upgrade on the B15 amps. It's been a struggle figuring out which of the 421's they installed if someone ordered it that way. The 421-8H I installed in mine is very similar to the 421a spec-wise, and I think that's the most likely OEM supplied one. The 421-8LF is also an option with a slightly lower (5hz lower) res freq.
If someone on this thread has a B15 that they know came from the factory with an Altec, it would be great to know exactly which variant of the 421 they installed. Perhaps it was whatever they could get a good deal on that day. Kustom also used them as an optional upgrade, but I'm not at all sure what model in that case either. The good news is, you can still find Altec 421 drivers used, and in good condition on-line. They're not cheap, but they are great speakers.
Dave O.
Zombie Thread Reboot!
Thanks for your input! The 421-8H sounds like it would be interesting to give a shot.
The 421a is what they offered as an upgrade speaker in the Thiele cab B-15's. And yes, the CTS they used in those B-15's were a bit on the dark side. The earlier 60's CTS's were a different speaker, though. They just didn't sound all that great in those later B-15's IMHO. Good but a little too scooped. The Altec is the best for those Thiele models if someone's looking for more even response with some treble to it.
I have a 1964 CTS that has serious and pronounced "gank". When I bought the amp I was highly suspicious of the midrange, but even after it was serviced by the best guy in LA, and a couple caps were replaced, it was still there. When I measured it—BAM—there it was, large as life at 2k:
Do you experts think a re-cone would help this? My CTS doesn't in any resemble the remarks I've read here. "Mellow" it ain't. If anything, it's an ice tool to the forehead. The below-100Hz performance could also be improved.
I have measured the amp head itself, and it's smooth, Baxandall-tastic all the way. Nothing wrong with the amp itself. Oddly, this speaker records great, but it's unpleasant in the room.
Do you experts think a re-cone would help this? My CTS doesn't in any resemble the remarks I've read here. "Mellow" it ain't. If anything, it's an ice tool to the forehead. The below-100Hz performance could also be improved.
I have measured the amp head itself, and it's smooth, Baxandall-tastic all the way. Nothing wrong with the amp itself. Oddly, this speaker records great, but it's unpleasant in the room.
If it records great, I'm not seeing a problem unless you're planning to use it on gigs. My favorite modern replacement is the Delta 15a, but it sounds almost identical to the 66 CTS recone I have. But I don't know if yours does because it's original. Beta's a shade darker and might work for you. Costly road to go down sight unseen when it records great and that's all we know, though.
Well... you want to be able to play it for pleasure and not have it take your head off. That's nearly 15dB of difference between 1k and 2k, and trust me, you can hear it. I'm interested to check out the Beta and the Deltas, but I also like the Altec 421. I can't help but think this performance is wrong, and not how this speaker is "supposed" to sound.
I'm experiencing the same issue. I have a '72(ish) B15N that was so annoying in the room that I recorded a snippet for this forum to get opinions on whether or not it was normal. When I listened back I was surprised that the sound was much better in the recording. Not sure how that would translate in a live situation with more room for the sound to spread. You could always keep the cab as is and get a warmer 15" cab to plug the head into to tame the highs.
I figure a $150 speaker swap would be a less invasive option to try first. If a completely different speaker behaves the same way, then I've learned something about the cabinet. I somehow doubt it will, though.
Delta installed as of tonight. Will fire it up tomorrow and see how it sounds.
No word of a lie: I actually got goosebumps at one point playing through this Delta 15a speaker. Very nice. It's got plenty of low end but not so much that the cabinet starts rattling. JimmyM is right that it resembles the old CTS speaker—it really does—but in my instance, the high end of the range is lot smoother and doesn't cause ice pick discomfort. Most importantly of all, it sounds like a B15 should. Great recommendation.
Isn't the Delta 15a a 400 watt speaker? is it too stiff for the B15 head?
Not at all. The only drawback is the size of the magnet, which can sometimes clunk into the transformers when transporting. A couple pieces of sticky back felt take care of that, though. It’s a myth about hi power handling speakers being too stiff for low power amps.If it was true, then nobody could play at lower volumes without having a low power handling speaker, and that just doesn’t happen.
It doesn't feel like it. I'm getting very "B15"-ish vibes from it. Mind you, I haven't seen the excursion with my own eyes, but all seems to be well.
Good to hear. Jimmy, you make a very good point about playing at low volumes. I just thought you might be able to get a little more out of a speaker that's a little more closely matched in wattage.
However, all that matters is how it sounds and responds.
600Ohms, are you still loving the Delta 15a? Gotta admit I'm very tempted. Of all the high priced items musicians can spend money on a $150 speaker is pretty reasonable.
However, all that matters is how it sounds and responds.
600Ohms, are you still loving the Delta 15a? Gotta admit I'm very tempted. Of all the high priced items musicians can spend money on a $150 speaker is pretty reasonable.
If you want speaker distortion, you'll need a speaker that has a lower power handling rating. For bass with these amps, speaker distortion isn't desirable, guitar perhaps.
I have a Delta 15A (not the 15LFA) as well. For the $130 price, you can't really go wrong.
I’m feeling pretty settled about it now. Great speaker that really emulates everything I liked about my vintage CTS but doesn’t exhibit an aging speaker’s tendency to get all midrangey. A friend has the Altec, and I feel the Delta is like a hybrid of the two.
Bump an old thread!!
Not really a Bass player but I saw this thread, and decided to register.
I just wanted to let people know Great Plains Audio still makes the Altec 421A, and the 418H. The 421A is a 100w Ceramic, and the 418H is a 150w Alnico.
GPA employees bought all the rights ect, and all the maufacturing equipment back in the 90s. They were originally doing warranty, and Repair work, and decided to go on into making the original spekers. They also make all kinds of other original replacement speakers, crossovers ect.
The 421HLF vs the 418H is the 421H has a resonant frequency of 35Hz, and the 418H is 55hz. The frequency response for the 421H is 35hz-8000Hz, and the 418H is 45Hz-8000Hz.
The 421H is 14,440 Gauss, the 418H is 13,000 Gauss.
The 418H is 1db more efficient
418H is 150w Alnico V
421H is 150w Ceramic.
421H weighs 20lbs 11oz
418H is 14lbs 6oz
Magnet Weight on the 421H is 4.875lbs
418H Magnet Weight is 2.4lbs
421A is 100w Ceramic
40Hz Resonant Frequency
35Hz-8000Hz frequency Response
4.875lbs Magnet Weight
Same Efficiency as the 421HLF
Ive got both the 421A, and 418H, and 418H Series II, and use them for guitar. Ive had the 421A, and 418H since new. 2 x 418H since 1973. 421A in 75. I believe the Series 418H II came out around 1975. Maybe later I didnt buy the Series II new. To my ears they sound the same as the 418H
I use them with a Blackfaced 69 Dual Showman Rvb with a Dumble ODS mod. Ive had the DS Rvb since 73, and had it modded and completely gone over in 2011. The speakers have been super reliable, and never 1 problem out of them.
I just wanted to let people know Great Plains Audio still makes the 421A, 418H, and the 417H.
Not really a Bass player but I saw this thread, and decided to register.
I just wanted to let people know Great Plains Audio still makes the Altec 421A, and the 418H. The 421A is a 100w Ceramic, and the 418H is a 150w Alnico.
GPA employees bought all the rights ect, and all the maufacturing equipment back in the 90s. They were originally doing warranty, and Repair work, and decided to go on into making the original spekers. They also make all kinds of other original replacement speakers, crossovers ect.
The 421HLF vs the 418H is the 421H has a resonant frequency of 35Hz, and the 418H is 55hz. The frequency response for the 421H is 35hz-8000Hz, and the 418H is 45Hz-8000Hz.
The 421H is 14,440 Gauss, the 418H is 13,000 Gauss.
The 418H is 1db more efficient
418H is 150w Alnico V
421H is 150w Ceramic.
421H weighs 20lbs 11oz
418H is 14lbs 6oz
Magnet Weight on the 421H is 4.875lbs
418H Magnet Weight is 2.4lbs
421A is 100w Ceramic
40Hz Resonant Frequency
35Hz-8000Hz frequency Response
4.875lbs Magnet Weight
Same Efficiency as the 421HLF
Ive got both the 421A, and 418H, and 418H Series II, and use them for guitar. Ive had the 421A, and 418H since new. 2 x 418H since 1973. 421A in 75. I believe the Series 418H II came out around 1975. Maybe later I didnt buy the Series II new. To my ears they sound the same as the 418H
I use them with a Blackfaced 69 Dual Showman Rvb with a Dumble ODS mod. Ive had the DS Rvb since 73, and had it modded and completely gone over in 2011. The speakers have been super reliable, and never 1 problem out of them.
I just wanted to let people know Great Plains Audio still makes the 421A, 418H, and the 417H.
Passinwind
I know nothing.
- Dec 3, 2003
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- Designer/Toaster Tech @ Passinwind Electronics
Are you sure about that? Someone recently posted that they'd discontinued making all those models and none of them seem to be shown on the website any longer.
