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AMPEG cab decision time

origami

origami

Jun 26, 2005
653
4
Big D TEXAS
www.myspace.com
#1
all right. now i've gotten all spooked out over the farting on my new SVT610hlf and i may return it/replace it while I can. I may take it for one more test run because I really liked the look and all tone of the 610(except for the farting notes past 1/2 volume).

I must make a decision. I got two shows coming up with zero or limited PA support, so i got to be loud, felt, clean, powerful. I play in 440/4string, but need a rig that can take some "ron jeremy sized" notes!

I want to 100% stick with Ampeg. I do really prefer the SVT cosmetics, but I guess I can live without it if I had to.

upfront: The 810e is a no/go because it doesn't fit sideways in the back of my SUV (the 610 fits/barely) I need my backseats to carry other stuff/people and I don't want to lay them down. Additioanally the 810 does not fit underneath my stairwell (where i store my gear after shows) The 610 barely fits hieghtwise.

My GK 1001rb-II head is 700 watts/only drops to 4ohms so I cannot mismatch impedences. Upon returning the 610, Here are my choices:

Ampeg PR410HLF (big wooden, ported pro cab) 4ohm/600watts

or

Amper PR410h (built just like the HLF, but sealed/non ported pro cab) 8ohms/600watts

or

SVT 410HLF (classic look, ported) 4ohms/500watts

or

SVT 410he (classic look, sealed) 8ohms/500watts. I could stack this on my 15e I already own.

or

SVT 15e (classic look, ported) 8ohms/200watts. I could stack this on top of the 15e i already own, but I kinda just want to keep that 15" at rehearsal only.


HELP me choose!
 
#3
the pr410h doesn't match cosmetically or physically to the 15e.

that pr410h was weird, i'd never seen one in 8ohms. i never ever even tried it out, but there is one at the GC I do my shopping at.

i used to have the proted pr410hlf and liked it. i do wonder how the sealed version would react. I hated my BXT410. i had a lot of issues with it.
 
#5
If you have already decided, do what you gotta do....

But, as mentioned in the other thread....

The 610 is a ported cab. That means it WILL probably give some flapping under its tuning freq. If you stay above that for most of the power, no problem.

And, usually, you get louder if you lay off the super lows, and put the energy in the harmonics. You even get the fundamentals back because of the way harmonics add up in the ear, so the fundamental SOUNDS present. What you DON'T get back is "pants flapping" low end.

You might try it, and see. Otherwise, go with what sounds right to you....

Its an EQ thing. If you want to push the low end, you may be better off with a different cab.......
 
#6
That doesn't make sense... I thought it was that ported cabs lost dbs fast below the tuning frequency while the sealed cabs lose dbs a lot slower below the tuning frequency.

Either way, I believe (someone correct me) that the ported Ampeg cabs are going to be better for you. The sealed cabs have really midrange drivers in them, but because it's sealed, the lows are created. This leaves you with kind of a mushy sound. Anyone clarify this for me?

All I can really tell you for sure is that ported cabs are usually lighter and more compact. I'd think that a 4x10 (or 2x10) with a 1x15 would be good for you as well as have a look at your EQ. It sounds like you have too much low end.
 
#7
Da LadY In Red said:
That doesn't make sense... I thought it was that ported cabs lost dbs fast below the tuning frequency while the sealed cabs lose dbs a lot slower below the tuning frequency.
Click to expand...

Ported cabs DO lose efficiency below tuning. They also tend to "lose control" of the cones, because the port/cabinet system no longer loads the cones, the displaced air simply flows in and out of the ports.

That means the cones move relatively freely, and can "flap" , "fart", whatever. They aren't producing useful sound, but they do still move.

Near tuning, the sound is coming from the port. The cone is just transferring energy to the tuned system of the box, the air in the cabinet and the port.

The cone is not producing much real sound. In fact, it tends to move LESS at tuning than it will right above the tuned range (and so produces less sound directly radiated).

Below tuning, that tuned system is no longer acting. So energy isn't acoustically transferred, and sound output drops fast because teh cone can't move far enough to produce the acoustic power.. So "cone loading" drops off, and the cones "flap".

With a sealed cab, the cones have to compress air to move, so they are "controlled" a bit better. They tend not to "flap" or "fart", at least not for the same reason. (there is a phenomenon called "doubling" that can happen)

The downside is that the cabs may be either bigger or less efficient, or both, vs a ported cab with otherwise similar performance.

In this case, with a relatively higher tuned ported cab, boosting low EQ puts a lot of power where the cones can't make sound, a the port isn't active, and the cones are free to move easily.... possible "farting".

The 410HLF goes lower, most of an octave, so it would handle lows much better, even though it is still ported. The BSE410, however is higher tuned, and would NOT handle as much as the HLF at lows. But then the BSE is a bit more efficient in the range it does handle.

It's all in what you want.
 
#9
Jerrold Tiers said:
The 610 is a ported cab. That means it WILL probably give some flapping under its tuning freq. If you stay above that for most of the power, no problem.
Click to expand...
If you saw origami's earlier earlier post Jerrold he said he was having these issues with one note, a D above low E on a four string, surely no problem for the 610? Gotta be something else. Dodgy driver?
 
#10
I have been a long time Ampeg 810 user and switched a few years ago to the SVT410HLF and man - I should have done it a long time ago. I ended up buying another so I have the option of 410 or 810 or a cab on each side of the drummer. It is wonderful. Deep clear lows for my B string NO FARTING whatsoever! You can find them for 300 to 450 used. They are the same height as a Marshall half stack and look really cool on stage next to them. I can't say enough about them. I will never change (however I am tempted to try a Schroeder someday).
 
#14
I've found with my SVT610HLF that you can't try to turn up the bass on the amp and get "sub-like" tones out of it. It will fart and will not use the cab to its full efficiency.

Keep the bass flat and give the cab more power-it then shines in the mix and has thump and clarity in the audience.

What I don't like about it is that you have to be at least 15 feet in front of it to hear this. Any less and you can't take in how good the cab can sound.

Kinda like the complaints about 18's and some 15's-you need distance for the tone to develop.

This cab works great for good size rooms with no PA support though-just feed it power.
 
#16
I've had my 610 for about 9 months, and never have a farting issue with it, and I push it with a 76 svt. Like was said by J Tiers, cut the lows a tad, and plow thru the mix. I drop d quite a bit and still don't have these issues. Just because you can add lows doesn't mean you need to.

If you feel you do tho, switch to 15's. Ampeg makes a nice one. the SVT215e.
 
#19
I cut round plugs from dense, sealed foam (the kind that lets minimal air pass through the cells) and stuffed them in the ports of the 610HLF.

Turn the tweet off and it comes pretty close to sounding like my 810E.

It cuts the boom and rolls off a little bass. Be careful that you don't try to replace it by turning the bass waaay back up.

This was a real benefit in our rehearsal room where the cab on certain notes overpowered the room. For large gigs when I want it, I pull out the plugs.
 

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