I'm talking to the person who said that my post may be a "gag" and to the person who said what I experienced may be and "illusion".
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Ampeg SVT-CL vs. SUNN 2000s
- Thread starter zartalexander
- Start date
OK then, so since I'm the one who asked if your post was a gag, please enlighten me in a serious manner why you don't think an SVT can move air. Because I've played a butt-ton of them and I feel air moving quite well every time.
I would take the Ampeg's tone and gain structure over the Sunn any day. The Baxandall boost and cut bass and treble, and the excellent active inductor based boost and cut midrange far excells the all passive Sunn tone controls. The power amp of the Ampeg has far more muscle. The Sunn ain't a bad amp, but the SVT is THE classic. If the Sunn design was so good, there would still be someone building and selling it today. It's not much more than a higher powered Fender Bassman...just a slightly different tone stack.
Set up a Sunn 2000s crank it up and play in front of it and report back. Then we will be able to discuss from the same vantage point.... Until then any discussion will more than likely be fruitless. But until you get back to me with your own firsthand experience, I'll say that from my first hand experience of playing SVT's and having heard the Sunn 2000's ( I've never played through one - only heard/experienced it as an audience member) that again, there was no comparison. The SVT vibrates - the Sunn PUSHES.
Anyone who has seen my posts knows I'm an avowed Acoustic owner/operator and will also know I dont have much love for Ampeg amps, but I err on the side of being open minded (keeps me out of jail on occasion) and let my ears do the listening - and not my heart. I enjoy lowend no matter how it is birthed.. it's just that I seem to enjoy it more when it's not running through a "Baxandall boost and cut bass and treble, and the excellent active inductor based boost and cut midrange", thats all.
I've played my share of Ampeg's over the years and I always seem to have the same exact experience - Focus is lost, the tone is anonymous, the top end is like crinkly aluminum foil and the bottomend is slushy. Hearing the Sunn 2000's was the exact opposite of all these things AND could feel it's visceral impact in a way I've NEVER felt with an Ampeg. An SVT cabs lo- mid/mid response starts to drop off radically after about 20 ft ( the result of having 4 little infinite baffle cabinets maybe? dunno...) where as my experience with the Sunn was again the exact opposite. I'm not talking about vibration here, I'm talking about feeling the sound IMPACTING your body.
I now there are people on TB who kneel at the alter of Ampeg (I am certainly not one of them and I hope that doesn't make me a "bad person"), but the night I felt/heard the Sunn, I wasn't on a mission to bash another brand of amp... I just know what I felt.
Anyone who has seen my posts knows I'm an avowed Acoustic owner/operator and will also know I dont have much love for Ampeg amps, but I err on the side of being open minded (keeps me out of jail on occasion) and let my ears do the listening - and not my heart. I enjoy lowend no matter how it is birthed.. it's just that I seem to enjoy it more when it's not running through a "Baxandall boost and cut bass and treble, and the excellent active inductor based boost and cut midrange", thats all.
I've played my share of Ampeg's over the years and I always seem to have the same exact experience - Focus is lost, the tone is anonymous, the top end is like crinkly aluminum foil and the bottomend is slushy. Hearing the Sunn 2000's was the exact opposite of all these things AND could feel it's visceral impact in a way I've NEVER felt with an Ampeg. An SVT cabs lo- mid/mid response starts to drop off radically after about 20 ft ( the result of having 4 little infinite baffle cabinets maybe? dunno...) where as my experience with the Sunn was again the exact opposite. I'm not talking about vibration here, I'm talking about feeling the sound IMPACTING your body.
I now there are people on TB who kneel at the alter of Ampeg (I am certainly not one of them and I hope that doesn't make me a "bad person"), but the night I felt/heard the Sunn, I wasn't on a mission to bash another brand of amp... I just know what I felt.
I think a big part of the "air moving" from the Sunn is the cabinet design. The SVT 8x10 is sealed if I recall correctly, whereas the 2000s cab has a big old slot port right in the middle of it. I don't think it's necesarily the SVT isn't pushing as much, obviously it's a louder head and can push plenty, but I think this is a cabinet debate. I doubt putting the 2000s into a sealed 8x10 would produce the same effect of pushing as much air.
if it was me i'd buy the sunn combo,but keep the ampeg head.....dump the 410 if it's an hlf and save up for a fridge......they are both great ampsSo about a year ago I got a great deal on a SVT-CL with a 4x10. Overall, I have been satisfied. It has plenty of volume and a great tone. Yeah it weighs a lot...blah blah. I just want something that sounds good.
But of course...then I just have to spot a Sunn 2000s w/ a matching Sunn 2x15 for about $1000. It's worn (as expected for it's age), but everything seems functional and it doesn't look like anything is missing/broken/replaced. I know that combo is worth a lot more than that...right? I also know it would be about an even trade for what I have now.
I've heard these amps are killer, but I was wondering how they hold up to the SVT-CL? Tone, volume, reliability, durability, or anything relevant? Is there anything I should be looking out for in particular?
If it's of any importance/relevance, I am using a '79(?) Gibson G3 bass with a variety of pedals. I like heavy, punchier tones and I play hardcore/punk/noise/etc.
I don't want mess with success, but I also don't want to miss out on a rare opportunity.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Something that
The Sunn 2000s and 200s amps are specifically designed to use their 2x15" cabs. To say the JBL's and the cabinet design are efficient is an understatement. While the SVT is generally used with an 8x10 it's got more than twice the power of the 2000s so you can put on top of just about anything and get volume. You just can't do that with the Sunn if you're looking for a "clean" sound. Again, apples and oranges.
I would say that the SVT is definitely the more versatile amp. If I had a 2000S amp, I'd probably just use one setting on it with minor variations (mids cranked all the way, lows depending on the room, highs depending on how old the strings are). I'd only use one sound from it, but it's a hell of a sound.
I think my ideal amp would probably be a modified copy of the 2000S with a second, blendable channel that's just the mid control from the SVT, with the Mesa D-180's master/volume setup.
Yeah, I think that's a big part of it. The SVT will be loud on almost any cab, whereas the 2000S head really works best with the 2000S cab. An SVT on a 2000S cab would also probably be obscenely loud.
+1.
SVT will sound good on the 2000S cab, too.
Yep, though the SVT doesn't really have over twice the power of the 2000S. The SVT is rated at about 5% THD I think, whereas the Sunn is rated at 1%. Rated the same way, the 2000S head, as D.M.N. noted earlier, would be at least 150 watts for the older ones, and quite a bit more than that for the later ones.
Never use Sunn, but after listening to some demo of it, not bad, but if me, I'd go for SVT-CL all the way
The Sunns were way. conservatively rated IMHO. I have vivid recollections of the visceral experience already mentioned.The JBL's were the best thing out there at the time..They had a very stiff flat cone and long xmax and in those sunn boxes were just a phenomenon.
Ok so I'm not out of my mind, right? I think the Sunn cab would be a little bit of a nightmare in a small sized club ( 50-300 cap) where you are expected to feed into the PA. The SVT cab ( without port version) might be better in a sense because it's a little less all consuming of it's surrounding air space in the low end, unlike what I heard/felt with the 2000's...
Jimmy M> I know you're the go to guy in regards to Ampeg so heres a Q for U; have you experimented with playing a different distances from your amp? If space allows, I general like to be as far away from mine as possible so I can then tune the amp/cab to the whole room and not just the immediate area surrounding it.
I'll usually put the thing in the freekin corner of the stage as far back as I can get it if possible and then set my volume from there. I end up loosing the visceral impact I would achieve for myself but I can then really tune into how the rest of the band is perceiving me. Nothing new here for anyone whos been doing this a while but maybe for new guys, this might be of some benefit ect.
Jimmy M> I know you're the go to guy in regards to Ampeg so heres a Q for U; have you experimented with playing a different distances from your amp? If space allows, I general like to be as far away from mine as possible so I can then tune the amp/cab to the whole room and not just the immediate area surrounding it.
I'll usually put the thing in the freekin corner of the stage as far back as I can get it if possible and then set my volume from there. I end up loosing the visceral impact I would achieve for myself but I can then really tune into how the rest of the band is perceiving me. Nothing new here for anyone whos been doing this a while but maybe for new guys, this might be of some benefit ect.
I'm trying to use the 'quote' button to keep my responses "in phase" but it's not working... what am I doing wrong here!?!?!
No doubt! The venue I heard it in was tiny. Maybe 80-100 crammed into a space that should've held 40. No pa support so it was all amp, but my point was that if you had to play a place that size and be forced to go into the PA then it would be a problem because you'd have to turn down to the point where the amp wouldn't be doing "it's thing" any longer and it might as well be any other amp up there. As a side note as number of people were going up to the stage to look at the amp and geeking out.... and not just musicians mind you!! I even saw a couple females who probably have no idea what an amp does pointing at it. Jimmy M >> when was the last time your 'peg got that kind of attention!!??
I regularly go out into the crowd to listen to my sound. Granted, the vast majority of them have PA, but I've also done some gigs where the rig ended up carrying the house, and I've played some very large rooms with the SVT and 810 carrying it, and never had a problem with it dropping off or whatever. Sunn tube rigs are great, but I always ended up sounding like Entwistle or Chris Squier when I've played them, and that's not a bad thing in itself but wasn't my thing. Acoustic...eh. Had a 136 combo and used to play my chorus director's 360/301 a lot and wasn't all that big on either.
As for girls, hey, I'm married and a little old for that, but I'd be lying if I said the ladies never noticed my Heritage SVT. Of course, they're in their 50's and 60's, so it's not quite the same as it was in 1986, but my wife is quite a few years younger than me
Me too. I recall a guy who had a Bassman amp that obviously didn't make the grade in a loud rock band. He bought a 200s head thinking he would get the performance of a 200S rig with his Bassman bottom. Nope. Only marginally better. The 200S was only rated 60 watts but they would bury any 100 watt 2x15 at that time. It was the efficient folded horn bottom with 2 D140's. ( I know, not a true folded horn, discussed many times.)
Same deal as the old Acoustic 360. Conservatively rated power through a speaker design that just maximized the effects of those watts.
Another vivid memory. I heard a band in a club where both guitar players had Twin Reverbs on top of 2x12 bassman extensions. Obscenely loud. The bass player had a Sunn 2000s and was not "lost in the mix" as the saying goes. That Sunn shook my bones and rattled my brain and I could hear and feel every note...clearly.
One of the limiting factors for a lot of small time players was that the 2000S was one of the top of the line pro rigs at the time and ridiculously expensive. If you saw anybody with one of those or a Traynor YBA-3A with 2 8x10s you just drooled in envy. The SVT soon followed.
If you go with Sunn, and you eventually regret it, you can sell 'em and buy an SVT any day of the week.
If you go with the SVT, and you eventually wish you tried the Sunn, good luck finding another matching 2000s in your neighborhood without waiting awhile.
If you go with the SVT, and you eventually wish you tried the Sunn, good luck finding another matching 2000s in your neighborhood without waiting awhile.
