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Ampeg SVT-CL vs. SUNN 2000s

zartalexander

zartalexander

Guest
Mar 17, 2012
105
9
California
#1
So about a year ago I got a great deal on a SVT-CL with a 4x10. Overall, I have been satisfied. It has plenty of volume and a great tone. Yeah it weighs a lot...blah blah. I just want something that sounds good.

But of course...then I just have to spot a Sunn 2000s w/ a matching Sunn 2x15 for about $1000. It's worn (as expected for it's age), but everything seems functional and it doesn't look like anything is missing/broken/replaced. I know that combo is worth a lot more than that...right? I also know it would be about an even trade for what I have now.

I've heard these amps are killer, but I was wondering how they hold up to the SVT-CL? Tone, volume, reliability, durability, or anything relevant? Is there anything I should be looking out for in particular?

If it's of any importance/relevance, I am using a '79(?) Gibson G3 bass with a variety of pedals. I like heavy, punchier tones and I play hardcore/punk/noise/etc.

I don't want mess with success, but I also don't want to miss out on a rare opportunity.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. ;)
 
#3
The SVT is the louder amp, with a more flexible EQ section (not that the 2000S amp is bad sounding by any means, just the EQ section is more limited).

The 2000S cab is likely louder than the 4x10, though. And it's just amazing sounding in terms of tone. It's also pretty much as big as an 8x10, so keep that in mind.

What 4x10 are you talking about, anyway? Most 4x10 cabs I've seen are 8 ohms, and the SVT only does 4 ohms and 2 ohms.
 
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#5
Sounds like the SVT 410hlf to me. As an aside, Bill Hughes, who invented the SVT for Ampeg, says that the output transformer/power section is so well built that it can easily withstand using an 8 ohm cab, even if you crank it hard. Now I don't crank them hard, but I have used 8 ohm cabs with an SVT on rental gigs many times and never once had a problem, so I tend to believe Bill. And even if I hadn't, Bill's the inventor, so I would take him at his word.
 
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#6
JimmyM said:
Wouldn't trade an SVT in on one, but old Sunn tube amps are a lot of fun.
Click to expand...


That...
Korladis said:
The SVT is the louder amp, with a more flexible EQ section (not that the 2000S amp is bad sounding by any means, just the EQ section is more limited).

The 2000S cab is likely louder than the 4x10, though. And it's just amazing sounding in terms of tone. It's also pretty much as big as an 8x10, so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...

That depends on the model of the cab. Sunn did not usually put great
drivers in their cabs. Early on you could get JBL D&K 140's as a factory upgrade but they downshifted to CTS in the 70's as their lunch was getting eaten by Ampeg and Acoustic. Those D or K140's were sweet sounding but had fairly low power handling. You'd want 4 of them to get seriously loud... 4 15's is a lot of stuff and a lot of space

An SVT and 4 ohm 4x10 will produce quite a lot of noise.

I would pass...
 
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#7
I record & play mostly punk / hardcore / rock, I've got a Sunn (Sorado) and an Ampeg (SVP pre / Demeter Power amp) and I'd say if you're going to pick one; pick the Ampeg. I'm super happy that I've got both, because I feel that they cover different ground, but the Ampeg would be my desert island amp. If you by chance have the means to do it, I'd buy the Sunn and play with it for a while to see if you like it better, then sell the one you don't want. The only way you'll really be able to decide is with your own ears. Hope that helps.
 
#8
Korladis said:
...and the SVT only does 4 ohms and 2 ohms.
Click to expand...
Oh, old SVTs and SVT-CLs are fine at 8ohms. They just don't get as loud, and work the power tubes a little harder (which, tone wise, some would consider a virtue). I played mine off and on for years through an 8-ohm 212 full-range cab when I didn't want to bother schlepping the 810.
 
#9
No contest here. Grab that Sunn and never look back. I stood in front of the exact rig you're looking at buying a couple months back and it was PHYSICALLY PUSHING on me 15 ft away from it. The Ampeg aint EVER gonna do that on this planet. Yeah, you'll still feel the vibrations of the notes your playing but you wont feel the AIR.
 
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#12
zartalexander said:
My cab is 4 ohms. I can't recall the name/model, but it is an Ampeg 4x10.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see.

The 2000S 2x15 is voiced very differently than the Ampeg 410HLF. Much less in the sub lows, but a ton more midrange content (though basically every other cab I've ever played has more mids than the 410HLF).

4Mal said:
That...


That depends on the model of the cab. Sun did not usually out great
drivers in their cabs. Early on you could get JBL D&K 140's as a factory upgrade but they downshifted to CTS in the 70's as their lunch was getting eaten by Ampeg and Acoustic. Those D or K140's were sweet sounding but had fairly low power handling. You'd want 4 of them to get seriously loud...

An SVT and 4 ohm 4x10 will produce quite a lot of noise.

I would pass...
Click to expand...
The 2000S 2x15 had JBLs, stock. Maybe later they shifted to cheaper speakers, but not when they were making that cab.

With sensitive drivers, it is painfully loud.
 
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#13
bottomend! said:
No contest here. Grab that Sunn and never look back. I stood in front of the exact rig you're looking at buying a couple months back and it was PHYSICALLY PUSHING on me 15 ft away from it. The Ampeg aint EVER gonna do that on this planet. Yeah, you'll still feel the vibrations of the notes your playing but you wont feel the AIR.
Click to expand...
This is a gag post, right?
 
#16
JimmyM said:
This is a gag post, right?
Click to expand...
I suspect not. I too have had the experience of the illusion - and it must be an illusion - of air movement from a bass amp. And not necessarily a big amp - I've experienced it a couple of times with a 150W combo. In certain rooms, on certain notes, I've experienced what felt like air blowing out of the cabinet against the back of my legs. Given the way amps and speakers actually work, that's not possible, but I'm guessing that one can get some kind of standing wave phenomenon that creates the illusion.
 
#17
Sid Fang said:
I suspect not. I too have had the experience of the illusion - and it must be an illusion - of air movement from a bass amp. And not necessarily a big amp - I've experienced it a couple of times with a 150W combo. In certain rooms, on certain notes, I've experienced what felt like air blowing out of the cabinet against the back of my legs. Given the way amps and speakers actually work, that's not possible, but I'm guessing that one can get some kind of standing wave phenomenon that creates the illusion.
Click to expand...
It can definitely feel like it, with that 2x15 cab. Standing in front of it makes me feel like all the air in the room is getting shaken.
 
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#18
If it were me, there'd be no contest, it'd be the Sunn all the way. $1000 is usually the price of a head alone, and that rig will end up more valuable than the SVT-CL to a good many people. Besides that aspect, I also just think the Sunns sound better than the SVT-CL (and SVT-VR) by a country mile. I've never played a vintage blueline or anything, but I've tested out plenty of newer SVTs, and I don't think I'd voluntarily play through one given the option to play through a Sunn (or Hiwatt, or Marshall, or Sound City, etc). However, this is all personal opinion, there is no objective fact that one is superior to the other. For my tonal goals, Sunns do it, Ampegs don't. Here's a sample of my 1200s, controls set vol. 5, treble 10, bass 2, contour 10, to give you an idea of what tone they can produce. That's just a precision with rotosound swing 66s.


As far as durability, the Sunns are built like tanks. The transformers are like having two grape fruits stuffed in the head cabinet.The insides are very nicely laid out PTP, and can be easily serviced by most competent techs, as the design is in part derived from old Dynaco Hi-Fi stereo circuits. Which leads to another point that should be considered when comparing these amps: the 2000s is rated at 120w, but people will say "it's a very loud tube 120w". What they are actually perceiving is that if we were to measure the 2000s by the same standard as the SVT or most MI amps, then a healthy one would more accurately be rated around 190w. Sunn rated their amps by Hi-Fi standards, quite a bit more rigid than MI standards, and thus the 2000s was 120 watts RMS continuous, 20 Hz to 15 KHz, within 1 dB of 120 watts with less than 1% total harmonic distortion. So it's 120w in the 20Hz to 15KHz frequency range, before any THD (or, well, 1% distortion), so you're getting 120w clean before any trace of breakup. Pipe that into JBLs, very effecient speakers, and you have a very loud rig despite it's relatively "low wattage". Trust me, I run both a 1200s and a 2000s into 2x2000s cabinets each loaded with JBL K140s. That's a loud freaking rig. It does feel as if the air is blowing from behind you. The SVT will still be louder, but it's not as big of a difference as it might be made out to be.

What would be important to discover is what speakers are in the cabinet. As Satori said above, the 2000s only ever came with JBLs (although artists could pretty much ask for whatever speakers they want, so there are supposedly some factory Altec loaded 2000s cabs), but who knows what condition they're in, or even if they're the original speakers.
 
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