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Ampeg SVT VR Head requiring at least 115 volts from wall socket

That's right they are everywhere, which begs the question, why buy a new one when the real ones sound better, last longer and are cheaper and simpler.

Maybe the fact that they are common in the US and some other countries makes you think that, but really, I'm not trying to say stupid things, but I have seen just one real 70's SVT over here, in 10 years of playing bass... It's not like Ampeg doesn't sells amps all over the world. I understand it's disturbing that they may not work OK in every gig you have, but then again, crap voltage over here is the rule, and most decent clubs have good voltage regultaros and stuff like that, we know we have to deal with that, but I just say that for those who already bought the VR head (which for me is an American one), it's kind of silly to go upset saying that we should have bought an original one... Just saying. Peace.
 
I mentioned mine having power issues before, then again, the shed I tried mine in that HAD problems was a set of storage sheds here in MS. There is only 1 extension chord coming in, and I'm pretty sure that that same line is split between ALL the other sheds. I know that has something to do with it. But either way, that's the place we rent to play (pretty much the ONLY place to practice in this town!). So yeah. I'll have to splurge on the furman power regulator.
 
+ 100

Looking at the schematic, I think the relay circuit is simply set at the wrong voltage.. so that some marginal parts need too much mains volts to close it...

Anyway, a person who got really tired of that might find a way to wire around the "super safe" delay relay, and avoid the issue. I think it would then work just as low in mains volts as any other SVT.

Jerrold, If you recall I PM'd you once or twice about my VR that went into standby at one place in particular. The venue is known for sketchy power (a light show once crapped out there). I took both a CL and my VR... the VR went into standby several times while playing, but the CL never did.

My question is: do you think bypassing the delay relay would also solve the problem of a VR going into standby mid-song? (i.e: after it was already powered up, off standby, and had been playing for a few minutes)? Or is that a separate section of the circuit?

And just to follow up for others interested: I haven't had the problem anywhere else but the sketchy venue. Just bothered me that the CL would tolerate the mains, but the VR would not.

Thanks much Jerrold,

-Mike
 
There is a little circuit that compares the -15 with the +315V........ it's possible that is the problem...... although it looks unlikely...... possibly the relay board just doesn't get enough juice...... If Loud wants to know they can get one if us back as a consultant to figure it out for them!

However, the relay has no function other than the delay.... none of the "protection" from teh CL is active, and the cathode resistors are back to the old 1 ohm value......

So, a person who wanted to could probably simply connect around the relay, and almost surely would not have any more trouble with shutting down. It should run at low line.... If the old CL and vintage SVT could do it, the VR should as well.
 
okay guys. sorry i'm so late in getting back the results of my voltage tests on my SVT-VR with a variac to determine how much voltage it takes to get it the standby to kick in and run properly. Mine will come off of standby at exactly 112Volts. any less than that and it WON'T. I tested it with my trusted US Navy 20 amp variac and measured the voltage with a Fluke 87V DMM. Just to be sure, i also measured the voltage with my Wavtek 2015 and got the exact same results.

personally, i think that it would be nice if Loud would supply an update "mod" on the relay voltage so it would at least run down to 110V (or even lower for that matter), or a mod to allow the bypassing of the relay circuit altogether (like the old ones).
 
Maybe the fact that they are common in the US and some other countries makes you think that, but really, I'm not trying to say stupid things, but I have seen just one real 70's SVT over here, in 10 years of playing bass... It's not like Ampeg doesn't sells amps all over the world. I understand it's disturbing that they may not work OK in every gig you have, but then again, crap voltage over here is the rule, and most decent clubs have good voltage regultaros and stuff like that, we know we have to deal with that, but I just say that for those who already bought the VR head (which for me is an American one), it's kind of silly to go upset saying that we should have bought an original one... Just saying. Peace.

I apologize I didn't realize you were in Mexico, can't you have one shipped to you from the US? In other words return the one you have now and buy one on ebay and have it shipped, you should still save some money and won't have to put up with anything silly like I've been reading about with these amps. I certainly wouldn't pay 2 grand for an amp with the lousy reliability record it has gotten in such a short amount of time, I love Ampeg and always have but have seen the sound deteriorate over time, the Magnavox and Linden NJ heads were by far the best sounding and most reliable although most SLM heads seemed pretty reliable, they just didn't quite have the sound as far as I was concerned. I never even bring a spare, I don't have to, I use to but realized it was a waste of time, I know it's going to work when I plug it in.
 
wow!
I have been gigging my new head out for just over 3 months.
I decided to take it on our little tour.
Last night in Chicago it totally did the same thing at a gig.
:(
It just refused to come out of standby mode.
This is a huge bummer.
It seems like the general consensus is this issue is caused by there not being enough juice in the line right?
Other than just hope, what can a person do who is out on the road with little time (or ability) to by pass this thing?
 
i've got the schematics and component layout diagrams. what i was thinking about doing is either to bypass the relay delay circuit altogether, or at least modify it so it'll work on as low as 105 volts. i just have a few too many projects going right now to experiment with it so it'll be a week or two before i can play around with mine.
 
The stuff the LOUD guy said about 'power hungry" etc is so much smoke and mirrors. The standard SVT will work over a much wider range of voltage, and the SVT-CL will also.

The effect of lower voltage is to reduce all power supply voltages, and reduce the bias, as well as the filament voltage. These are more-or-less self-correcting, over a sensible range of voltages.

It's pretty obvious that there is a serious problem with the voltage sensing in the VR. I don't actually know exactly what it is in detail, but I can definitely suggest how to get around it.

It seems that the relay circuit is the culprit. The relay makes contact between J26, and the J27/J28 pair. These are "faston" tabs on the AC connection PC board. J 26 is the return from the standby switch, and J27/28 are for the main power transformer.

The relay is inserted between the standby switch and the power transformer. If either one is open, you get no high voltage, and so no power out.

There is a timing circuit on the power amp board. It forces a delay after the filaments come on, before the relay will close and "enable" the standby switch, allowing high voltage to be applied to the tubes.

But, none of the "protection" circuitry from the SVT-CL is present. So the only function of the relay is to provide a delay after the filament power is applied. Until the delay is finished, you won't have power applied, even if the standby switch is set to provide it.

And, of course, if the unit "decides" that the voltage is too low during the show, it will kill the high voltage and shut you off. Not good.

Therefore, if you can manage to wait a bit before switching from standby to "power on" mode, there isn't any particularly good reason why you can't just solder a piece of heavy wire across the relay contacts, totally bypassing it. Then YOU decide when it is in standby, or not.

Other methods involving a 2 into 1 faston tab might also work, although there is limited room for any extra parts inside.

And anyone from outside the US and using 230V/240V will be using only one of the J27/28 pair, and can probably just move the wire from J26 over to whichever of J27/28 is not used. That does the same thing.

unfortunately, for 120V , both are used, so that simple method won't work directly. With a "2 into 1" faston adapter, it could.

If you just can't stand it, probably there are different resistor values that can be found to widen the voltage range of the relay drive circuit. I don't see a particularly good reason to bother. Without extreme low voltage, the amp should work regardless...... Old SVTs, the original SLM SVT-HD, SVT-II, and years of SVT-CLs have worked fine since 1969, and there isn't a good reason for the CVT-VR to be different.

In fact, that is a good point, I never have gotten a good reason why the VR had to have the fancy extras....... as usual, one of them is the cause of the major problem in the unit...... They would have been better left off, to make the unit a fairly direct re-issue.

As it is, the VR has a different filament transformer than some earlier SLM SVTs, and it is different from the original. The 6.3 volt winding is the same, but there are additional windings which are not present on earlier units. These are, in part, for the preamp DC filaments of the VR. Another "nice feature", but not really required.........
 
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" I never have gotten a good reason why the VR had to have the fancy extras....... as usual, one of them is the cause of the major problem in the unit...... They would have been better left off, to make the unit a fairly direct re-issue."


i agree with you completely Jerrold. i was thinking of using 'the direct approach' and just bypassing the relay altogether. i've never needed that sort of 'protection' on my other two vintage SVT's, so i'd much rather use a 'manual' standby, rather than have the amp 'decide' whether it should be in standby or not. i'm going to just hardwire #26 to #27/28 and be done with it. BTW, thanks for the info.
 
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Jerrold, thanks so much for the details. I'm sure my tech knows most of this information already, but I always like to have a clear understanding of anything I'm thinking of having him do! I'm also a fan of multiple sources of information! I'm fairly new to the forum, but I see your name all over the place, so thanks for taking the time to respond.

John, sounds like you're in the same boat as me with the amp. If you don't mind, when you've had a chance to work on your VR, could you post an update of some sort here? Thanks in advance.

eric.
 
actually, mine has only gone into the low voltage mode once (went into standby) while playing at a backyard party. my whole band was plugged into one 50ft extension cord and after two hours i guess the voltage went below 112V. i had to use a backup head for the rest of the gig (and i didn't like that) so i'll be modding it into a "real" standby switch next week. i'll take some pics of the mod and post the results after its done.
 
looking at the schematic and layout diagram, it appears that you can just unplug the J26 jumper (that comes from the standby switch) and plug it into a "Y" cord that has two males and one female that connects to J27 (which is in parallel with J28, to completely bypass the relay, so there's no soldering (and its completely reversible). i'm going to try this on monday to see if it solves the problem, and i really can't see any reason that it wouldn't.
 
actually, mine has only gone into the low voltage mode once (went into standby) while playing at a backyard party. my whole band was plugged into one 50ft extension cord and after two hours i guess the voltage went below 112V. i had to use a backup head for the rest of the gig (and i didn't like that) so i'll be modding it into a "real" standby switch next week. i'll take some pics of the mod and post the results after its done.

An SVT at a backyard party. :cool:
 

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