Ampeg V4B with TL606 and 210av help?

[Seagrass]

Hello fellow Gurus!

(This is not about gigging)

I have a B4b head and I want to find a use for it in a 29x27 studio room where I play and record without excessive volume but not anemic.
Is this possible with a small cab like 210av? Or leave this idea?

At the moment I have a TL606 cab with a 1966 D140F inside.
I also have an old Polytone MiniBrut 1 which I love and use for practice and so on.
I also connect it to the TL606 and it sounds really warm and nice for the SS 80W.

My goal is to get "juice" from V4b with a taste of "fridge" in the role of SVT-210av and not go deaf at the same time))
Is it possible?

I also think I could use them together - TL606 with D140F and 210av on top.
The sensitivity of SVT-210av and D140F is approximately at the same 98dB.
The resistance of each cab is 8 ohms, so is no problem connecting them together at 4 ohms with Ampeg V4b.

I like the sound of the D140F and I don't want to harm it.
I like the sound of 10s...

What do you guys say?

Thanks!

 

[Redbrangus]

I'm not entirely certain what the question is. Can you use an Ampeg 210-AV driven by your V4-B at a substantial but not deafening level? Yes. Could it be used to produce tracks that sound like they were played on an 810? Yes -- pretty much anything can be made to sound like pretty much anything when close-mic'd in a recording setting. Will it give you the vibe of playing an 810 in the room? I can't say... IDK, but I wouldn't think so. It depends on how much just pure volume plays in your personal definition of what the experience is, among other things. Can you use it with you D140/606 cab? Sure. It sounds like you've considered the relevant specs and it won't hurt anything to at least try it. Be aware that there may be some differences in the way the sensitivity is measured and spec'ed, but there's no reason to not experiment with the combination to see if you like it. OTOH, I'm not too sure what the addition of the 210 to the wonderful mellowness of the JBL would bring, and mic'ing two different speaker cabs brings a host of variables into the recording process. But again, there's no reason not to try it if you've got the time to invest -- you're not going to hurt anything.

 

[Seagrass]

Yes, you are right, I should try it. Mixing is not something that I like but as an option for the play.
I just couldn't bring myself to sell V4B... That's the question.

 

[TomB]

I use a ‘70’s V4B into a 2x12 sealed V4 guitar cab as my practice amp in the basement of a triplex. So naturally, it’s at very low volume at all times. Sounds wonderful and no volume complaints to date!

 

[Seagrass]

2x12 is great but can be too loud for me with V4b when it's drive. I'll go with a single 210 as a start point.

 

[TomB]

2x12 is great but can be too loud for me with V4b when it's drive. I'll go with a single 210 as a start point.

Sure. I use a 2x12 because I scored the unloaded V4 guitar cab you see above for a song quite a while ago. I found the cab volume met the sealed cab specs for 2 Delta A 12” bass drivers, so I installed two diagonally and sealed the other 2 holes with plexi. Wonderful! 2 10’s should serve you just as well.

 

[Wasnex]

Could be wrong, but I think you are asking to push the amp into drive territory while keeping the volume relatively low. While the V4B is not a super powerful amp, it should should drive both cabs loud enough to make the neighbors mad if you live in an apartment. Should be fine in a house, unless you live in a duplex or your spouse is taking a knap or watching TV.

If you want to keep the volume down, probably the easiest solution is to get an attenuator. If you go this route, make sure the attenuator can handle 150W or more. Also make sure the attenuator shows the amp the expected impedance.

I would try before you buy if possible. In my experience, attenuators tend to change the tone and feel a bit at higher levels of attenuation. If you are picky, you may not find this to be an acceptable solution, even if it still records well.

 

[TomB]

Could be wrong, but I think you are asking to push the amp into drive territory while keeping the volume relatively low. While the V4B is not a super powerful amp, it should should drive both cabs loud enough to make the neighbors mad if you live in an apartment. Should be fine in a house, unless you live in a duplex or your spouse is taking a knap or watching TV.

If you want to keep the volume down, probably the easiest solution is to get an attenuator. If you go this route, make sure the attenuator can handle 150W or more. Also make sure the attenuator shows the amp the expected impedance.

I would try before you buy if possible. In my experience, attenuators tend to change the tone and feel a bit at higher levels of attenuation. If you are picky, you may not find this to be an acceptable solution, even if it still records well.

Maybe I missed the desire for “drive” - I should read more closely maybe. A V4B run hard enough to break up will easily get you evicted from an apartment in no time, even with small speakers. It’s very loud. I’ve never used a soak, though I’m sure it would work as @Wasnex has described. I wonder about a speaker-level DI? Could it handle high amp output levels and transform it down to mic or instrument levels for recording?

 

[Wasnex]

I wonder about a speaker-level DI? Could it handle high amp output levels and transform it down to mic or instrument levels for recording?

Remember tube amps need to be terminated with a proper load. A regular speaker level DI can be used to capture the signal, but it will not provide a proper load. As an example the CountryMan Type 85 can easily handle the voltage developed by a cranked V4B, but the input impedance is 10Meg, which would be very dangerous for the V4B.

 

[JimmyM]

You can run a D140f clean with a V4b but I wouldn’t push the power section into distortion. Same with the 210av. You can use gain and keep the master low, though, provided yours has separate gain and master, or you can just play with a clean tone. Using both cabs may work, but I’d be iffy about the D140.

 

[TomB]

If “juice” in your OP means pushing the V4 into distortion, I think you’ll go deaf in a small space, as you suggested. If you do, I’d check out the power soak advice offered above. The V4B has a wonderful clean tone at low volume. …but I’m not sure if that’s juicy enough .

 

[Patrice B]

I ran an SVT-210-AV with my V4 until last week and it was… loud! Now using another extension cab (Garnet 1x15 fitted with an Eminence Beta) and now it’s… louder . Definitely annoying for the girlfriend and son with just a tiny bit on the volume pot!

Not going deaf is definitely not attainable!

 

[bobyoung53]

Sure. I use a 2x12 because I scored the unloaded V4 guitar cab you see above for a song quite a while ago. I found the cab volume met the sealed cab specs for 2 Delta A 12” bass drivers, so I installed two diagonally and sealed the other 2 holes with plexi. Wonderful! 2 10’s should serve you just as well.

I bet that sounds good.

 

[bobyoung53]

You can run a D140f clean with a V4b but I wouldn’t push the power section into distortion. Same with the 210av. You can use gain and keep the master low, though, provided yours has separate gain and master, or you can just play with a clean tone. Using both cabs may work, but I’d be iffy about the D140.

Yes, I blew a fairly new JBL D-140 in a Sunn 2000S 4 speaker set up with a 200 watt Marshall Major so it couldn't have been getting a lot over 50 watts. The voice coil lead pulled out of the cone from over excursion, very nice sounding speakers though, got one in a 60 watt B-15S.

 

[Seagrass]

From time to time with due care I use V4b with D140 it's pretty nice but nice like a bird in a cage.
I've never tried "the master volume pot" mod from the back. Is it worth it?
DI it's a different story. I just feel the need to shape the tone and feel of playing directly through the amp+cab.

 

[Seagrass]

Today I opened my TL cab. looked inside and noticed that something is missing - there was no shelf! I quickly added one and voila! Now I have tight bass in the best traditions of the genre.

For a long time, I rushed about like a fool with this hole and didn't understand why it sounds so low and liquid. Now it's a totally different story.

 

[yonkrz]

The TL606 EV plans that i have show the shelf is only 2-1/2" deep? Not saying a longer shelf won’t change things but this is what the original plan that I have shows.

 

[Seagrass]

My cab's internal dimensions are W18" x L22" x D13"

What do you mean by 2-1/2" deep? port depth?
I cut off a piece of plywood leaving three fingers wide at the back like the old Portaflex.

Maybe it is a not be acting scientifically, but my ears like it.

 

[Ender_rpm]

My recording rig for a long time was an EBS T90 (90 watt w/ B15 style front end) into an 210AV. Close miced, sounds great, don't feel like it ever broke a sweat. But it was still band-level loud.

 

[Wasnex]

Today I opened my TL cab. looked inside and noticed that something is missing - there was no shelf! I quickly added one and voila! Now I have tight bass in the best traditions of the genre.

For a long time, I rushed about like a fool with this hole and didn't understand why it sounds so low and liquid. Now it's a totally different story.

Per the plans, the shelf is 2 1/2" deep. I believe the effective length is extended by 3/4", which is the thickness of the front baffle.

With an EVM 15, the standard port is tuned to 55hz. Adding the cover and putting the cab into step down mode, tunes the port to 40hz. Step down mode extends the low frequency cutoff, but reduces efficiency and max SPL by 2-3dB.

I don't know the recommended tuning for the JBL. JBL's recommended cabinet for the E140 is tuned to 40hz. I don't know if this is relevant to the D140, but I believe the Ds tuned similar to the Es and Ks.