What they say, verbatim, is "[y]our bass is finished [emphasis mine] and currently on the way to us from Europe": either it is true, and they lied before, or you're right, and they're lying now. Hardly semantics either way.
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Ampmaster Woodcraft Short Scale Bass
- Thread starter Heart_Reaper
- Start date
Huh? I pointed out that the seller did not give an answer to where the bass was made, which is the question the buyer asked, instead, the seller told the buyer where the bass was built. Built and made are two entirely different concepts, especially in a global economy. So yes, semantics.
Sigh. The seller also said the bass was finished and out of the country. Which means made/assembled/whatever (not just parts sourced from) outside the US. So not semantics,
Unless the rules have changed, sellers aren't allowed to list items the don't have on Reverb.
Since you used Zelle for the transaction, there is no buyer protection and this would have been done outside Reverb. So, since there is no transaction through Reverb, they won't be able to do anything. Zelle is basically F&F by another name, so no protection there. You will have to take this up directly with the seller. You sent them $850, which is effectively gone. So now your decision is whether to send the extra grand and get a bass or cut your losses and limit it to an $850 loss. If you decide to do that, they will say they're justified in not refunding you for a bass that is difficult to sell as a short scale, 5 string lefty. Realistically, your only path forward is to buy it and temper the "Made in USA" desire and realize that European instruments are every bit as good.
Finished, built, made, assembled, are all semantically different concepts. You do understand that, right? They mean different things.
One last attempt: The seller stated the basses are built in North Hollywood. Which may actually still be true.
A seller can receive a "finished" yet still unassembled bass from anywhere on the planet, screw a neck to a body, slap the electronics in, string it up and make the claim that they built it. They cannot however make the claim they made it.
"Assembled in California", "Built in Detroit", "Designed in New York" are all things companies print on their products to obscure the fact that their products are actually made somewhere else, typically China.
We'll see how this plays out, I hope the OP keeps us updated. But, my guess is the shop may argue that they didn't lie about where the bass was built.
I know it's probably too late now, but before sending that chunk of change I'd want to have had a very convincing phone call with an actual person.
I hope something works out to your satisfaction.
I hope something works out to your satisfaction.
I have one of their short scales, I had it shipped to me in the UK and the whole process was a bit of a mess, but it did eventually get here and I have to say it's been my main bass since then.
I agree with you, I am fairly certain these are made by Valiant in the Ukraine. I had a replacement neck shipped to me (the bass was sent with a different board to the one I ordered, there's a whole thread about that elsewhere..) and the neck came to me directly from Ukraine.
The positives: the bass is very well made, it's very light and comfortable and it does exactly what I need it to do. The neck is super comfortable, the truss adjustment works great, action is at 1.5mm at the 12th fret, no buzz, the electronics all work fine. It definitely does NOT feel like a cheap chinese instrument, I have an Atelier Z short scale and a Wilcock short scale, and honestly in practice it's no worse than either of those basses. The Wilcock is in a different league in terms of woods and build quality, of course, but tone and playability wise the Woodcraft holds its own against both those basses. I've modded it and added a bridge pickup, but that was because I really liked the way the bass played so I thought it was worth making it more versatile, and with the bridge pickup the bass has the nicest tone I've heard coming out of a short scale. (For my needs anyway).
The negatives: as others mentioned, dealing with the company was chaotic, they messed up my order and shipping took forever. And the bass arrived with the wrong neck.
But they made it right and I've been playing the bass non stop since then. Would I buy another bass from them? Yes, based on how much I like this one, I totally would, but only if I could collect it in person.
Oh nice, I'd def would have gotten one if they responded. I was looking at their take on the Musicmaster, judging from the specs it's a lot of bang for the buck.
If anyone from Woodcraft sees this: send me a message lol
Yeah, that's the one I got, it's basically a Musicmaster with a slightly fatter tone, more ergonomic neck, decent bridge and no single coil hum. It has 18mm string spacing, it's really nice to play. The tone was a little one dimensional for me so putting a bridge pickup in there helped a lot but I think you can order them in a few different options.
I'm surprised they're not getting back to you, although there's a war going on in Ukraine so it entirely possible that that's disrupting supply.
Edit to say if you're in the EU, check out Kithara guitars in Ireland, their Samson model is like a beautiful vintage Musicmaster with a bunch of pick-up options. Really tempted to order one of those sometime (although more pricey)
I've been looking at that kithara Samson for a little while now. I wish there were more samples of it to get an idea. So far, Dave Landreth has been the best source for hearing one.
They have a right hand version of the bass I wanted listed on their website. I messaged them and asked if a left handed version could be made for me? They said yes. They said special orders go direct through the brick and mortar store. I was Thinking the bass would be made in the same town by a local Luthier who partnered with them, so it was a direct with them
Yeah, I emailed the guy and said I'd really like to see / hear one, it's a little risky to spend that much money on something I've only seen a couple of photos of. There are a handful of playing demos on instagram but they don't sound good, room acoustics and whatever else, it's hard to get anything useful from them. They certainly look good (that green one especially) but I won't spend £2.5k on a bass without at least hearing a proper demo. Even if you hear one at a live gig, you don't necessarily hear the true sound of the instrument, preamps / effects / amp sims etc get in the way.
Luthiers should all invest in some decent online demos, when that Wilcock Mullarkey demo popped up on Youtube, that bass suddenly became world famous, he's been selling them non stop since then.
""finished" yet still unassembled".
That's a contradiction in terms, unless it was being sold as a bass kit.
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I see these basses every time I'm in their shop.
They're nicely made, and I've seen them next to Valiant pieces and if I guessed, I'd say yes, Woodcraft is probably assembled from parts made by Valiant.
Valiant is Urkrainian, and I believe the owner of Bass Exchange is also Ukrainian, (and English is not his first language), so claiming they are built in US is not a stretch in my book,
To OP, I'd recommend taking delivery of the bass. It will be a very well made bass I expect. I can't speak to whether every detail of it will be to your liking, but other companies sell this level of work for more like 2300-3000.
They're nicely made, and I've seen them next to Valiant pieces and if I guessed, I'd say yes, Woodcraft is probably assembled from parts made by Valiant.
Valiant is Urkrainian, and I believe the owner of Bass Exchange is also Ukrainian, (and English is not his first language), so claiming they are built in US is not a stretch in my book,
To OP, I'd recommend taking delivery of the bass. It will be a very well made bass I expect. I can't speak to whether every detail of it will be to your liking, but other companies sell this level of work for more like 2300-3000.
WOODCRAFT UPDATE
I got the reply with their version of what the word "MADE" means.
"Your bass is made in the USA, we are getting neck and body from Europe, all parts- Hand wound Pickups, Custom made mini bridge, Tusq nut,
Potentiometers , pickguard, tuners and La Bella strings from USA
Also assembly, frets, electronics wiring, setup etc...USA
Do not worry, NO China involvement"
My response was this…
"I find your semantics interesting. Very lawyer-like wording. When I asked where the bass was "Made", telling me the bass is ASSEMBLED in the USA with a mix of domestic and foreign parts, would have been the better way to go. Not telling me says more about your business practices. Knowing that information, I would have NOT ordered the bass. It will never hold or go up in value like an American bass made in 1 factory would. I thought I was getting a great value from a startup American Guitar company, But not now. It's just a Parts Bass"
IMO At minimum The body and the neck need to be made in the US for them to say "your bass is made in the USA"
Was my response correct, or are they correct?
I got the reply with their version of what the word "MADE" means.
"Your bass is made in the USA, we are getting neck and body from Europe, all parts- Hand wound Pickups, Custom made mini bridge, Tusq nut,
Potentiometers , pickguard, tuners and La Bella strings from USA
Also assembly, frets, electronics wiring, setup etc...USA
Do not worry, NO China involvement"
My response was this…
"I find your semantics interesting. Very lawyer-like wording. When I asked where the bass was "Made", telling me the bass is ASSEMBLED in the USA with a mix of domestic and foreign parts, would have been the better way to go. Not telling me says more about your business practices. Knowing that information, I would have NOT ordered the bass. It will never hold or go up in value like an American bass made in 1 factory would. I thought I was getting a great value from a startup American Guitar company, But not now. It's just a Parts Bass"
IMO At minimum The body and the neck need to be made in the US for them to say "your bass is made in the USA"
Was my response correct, or are they correct?
I don't know about "correct", but if you like the bass as much as previous posters do, you'll have gotten a great value for a semi-customized build. Resale? Who knows. The lefty market must be its own unique thing, I'm guessing. Short-scale 5-ers sure are, as someone who owns a couple of them.
I do agree that more disclosure about the bass' origins would be helpful to prospective buyers. In the end though, I think you are supporting an American company. Could you buy a new car today where all the parts were made in USA?
I do agree that more disclosure about the bass' origins would be helpful to prospective buyers. In the end though, I think you are supporting an American company. Could you buy a new car today where all the parts were made in USA?
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I understand that if I like the bass, it would be better than not. But, as stated in my original post, being a left-handed player means nearly 100% of the time I have to purchase a guitar or bass first online. Unlike being right handed, where you can try out 6-10 different USA Gibson's or Fender's for free and pick which one you want. Go into any music store and ask for left a handed instrument. It's always 0-3 maybe. Of those 3, all will most likely be a foreign made entry level instrument. That means for me just to try a quality instrument, I have to pay for it in full first. I take a huge financial risk every time I do. If I don't like it, I have to then try and re-sell it to get my money back. That's why I try to buy only USA made instruments. If I hold on to them long enough, I can at least break even, if that.
