Double Bass AMT Mic

[bolo]

Would it be correct to say that the resonated frequencies are due mic placement on the bass and can be additionally tamed with the HPF. And the squeeling has more to do with where you position your bass to the speakers?

I don't know that much since I rarely have problems with this "bass body rumbling and resonating" type of feedback. From what I've gathered a notch filter is slick for dealing with this though. Maybe the HPF too. This can (and has) happened with a p/u too, not just mics. It usually only happens to me when I am pinned right next to my amp. If I can, I move away from my amp. If not, I turn down. It also has happened to me when the soundperson decides to keep turning up the volume of the PA little by little as the gig progresses. So do some guitar and keybaord players. Frankly I don't quite understand this behavior. I set my levels and leave 'em. In this case I just glare at the person working the board. If that doesn't work, or if they are immersed in something more important than what's going on on stage (like watching the TVs), I just turn down.

Yes, the squealing mic feedback is mostly about where you position your mic relative to the speaker I think. Understanding the polar pattern of your mic will help. So will using a dynamic mic instead of a condenser. And of course getting a nice big acoustic sound so you don't have to crank the mic channel up, right?

That's what I know, but I'm no expert (playing at a Holiday Inn tonight remember? ). So any corrections or clarifications would be appreciated.

 

[dar512]

That's what I know, but I'm no expert (playing at a Holiday Inn tonight remember? ). So any corrections or clarifications would be appreciated.

Playing anywhere is better than playing nowhere. Count your blessings.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Well I'm sure I'll have no problem with feedback with a jazz trio, that's really like amp you can't hear unless you turn it off. If any.

My real concern is getting some real volume, I've been playing fusion stuff with two guitars and drums that will be a challenge with the mic. Like many of the guys on the board besides trying to do acoustic only "elitist" gigs I also am trying to push my way into situations where anything other then an electric bass is usually not accepted, those volumes usually require ear plugs on my end.

 

[bolo]

Then this clarification might be helpful. I meant to say that a notch filter and phase reversal are often viewed as useful tools for fighting that rumbling low end feedback. And like I said, you can get that kind of feedback w/ pickups too, not just mics.

Interestingly, when you use the notch filter on the AI, you get phase reversal.

 

[dblbss]

I run my amt through my series 1 coda with the treble speaker turned away from me and have never had a problem. It didn't work so well through my g-k mb150.

I don't have a pickup on my main bass, not as some badge of honour, but cause It took me so long to get enough $ to get a carved bass, for me personally I dont want to here a pick-up. As I have stated before, if it is going to be one of those gigs where it is going to get really loud I bring my plywood w/underwood attached, its that simple.

 

[bolo]

I always used the AMT blended with a Full Circle through the amp onstage and sent the mixed direct out to the house when there was a house to send it to. The keys for making this work for me were:

1) getting the amp off the floor and up as high as possible into the air; while I was still using the EA VL208 speakers, I pole mounted them on a PA speaker stand and had them between me and the drummer.

2) Muting the afterlength of the strings a bit when I wanted more volume from the mic and less "boom".

3) Rolling off the frequencies which tend to feedback first.

4) Setting the mic volume at one set workable level, then using the amount of pickup blended in to change volume levels from there.

Now that I'm using the Wizzy 10's and a dynamic mic, it's much the same thing. Getting the speakers pointed away from the body of the bass (and obviously, the mic itself) is the biggest part of the equation IMO.

Yeah, agreed Chris. I do all this too (because I learned it all on TB ), except #3.

But I had an enlightening experience not too long ago. I sent the PA the direct out from the Focus, with the blended p/u and mic signal just like you said. Sounded okay during the sets I thought. But they were making a recording at the board. As we were packing up, they started playing it back. What I heard was too much p/u, not enough mic for my tastes.

So this Sat. I have a gig in a medium-sized hall and I am going to take my D-TAR Solstice. With the Solstice into the Focus, I can hear my blended signal thru my amp, and send a mic only signal to the PA. More gear, more cables, but ... presumably a better "mic only" sound in the house. We'll see.

 

[bolo]

My real concern is getting some real volume, I've been playing fusion stuff with two guitars and drums that will be a challenge with the mic. Like many of the guys on the board besides trying to do acoustic only "elitist" gigs I also am trying to push my way into situations where anything other then an electric bass is usually not accepted, those volumes usually require ear plugs on my end.

If the stage volume is so loud that you have to wear ear plugs, getting anything usable with the AMT might prove to be a serious challenge. I'd be tempted to leave the mic at home in those situations. But YMMV. At least the red LED on the AMT will look cool to people in the audience.

 

[Uncletoad]

My real concern is getting some real volume, I've been playing fusion stuff with two guitars and drums that will be a challenge with the mic. Like many of the guys on the board besides trying to do acoustic only "elitist" gigs I also am trying to push my way into situations where anything other then an electric bass is usually not accepted, those volumes usually require ear plugs on my end.

I play a ton of gigs like that. Can't use a mic at all on them. Well, maybe on a few, but rarely.

On those the AMT never worked, the Sennheiser was the only one that would cut through.

 

[peterpalmieri]

I play a ton of gigs like that. Can't use a mic at all on them. Well, maybe on a few, but rarely.

On those the AMT never worked, the Sennheiser was the only one that would cut through.

I should mention I wear ear plugs on almost any amplified gig, I am not talking Metallica levels.

That being said I was able to mix in the mic last night with 2 guitars and a drummer. I don't know that I love the mix of the two or I am not finding it worth the hastle. The mic alone is much better and I was able to get decent volume last night but that's probably not a good case studies for most venues.

Put a nice gouge in the side of the bass from a cymbal stand last night, it seemed to bother everyone else more then me. If I still had my Morelli I might have thrown up but no problem on the ply, just battle scars.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Yeah, agreed Chris. I do all this too (because I learned it all on TB ), except #3.

But I had an enlightening experience not too long ago. I sent the PA the direct out from the Focus, with the blended p/u and mic signal just like you said. Sounded okay during the sets I thought. But they were making a recording at the board. As we were packing up, they started playing it back. What I heard was too much p/u, not enough mic for my tastes.

I know what you mean and agree, BUT...recording direct from the board and listening to the same signal live through the speakers and air are different animals altogether somehow. I made that "mic comparison" thread a while back by running my direct out into the board and recording from there. What surprised me was that the recorded sound didn't sound nearly as natural as the sound coming out of my amp speakers. At first I thought this must be due to the lack of the acoustic sound of the bass I was holding blending in, but the same was true with my fretless Mouse straight into the board. So near as I can figure, there's some kind of voodoo going on with the mic/pickup blend coming through real speakers in real time that makes it sound different. Throw in the context of the other instruments, and it all seems to work. YMMV, of course...

 

[peterpalmieri]

I know what you mean and agree, BUT...recording direct from the board and listening to the same signal live through the speakers and air are different animals altogether somehow. I made that "mic comparison" thread a while back by running my direct out into the board and recording from there. What surprised me was that the recorded sound didn't sound nearly as natural as the sound coming out of my amp speakers. At first I thought this must be due to the lack of the acoustic sound of the bass I was holding blending in, but the same was true with my fretless Mouse straight into the board. So near as I can figure, there's some kind of voodoo going on with the mic/pickup blend coming through real speakers in real time that makes it sound different. Throw in the context of the other instruments, and it all seems to work. YMMV, of course...

I am not suprised....

Just as we EQ our amp to sound good on stage with our cabinet the sound guy does that for his FOH system and the room acoustics. This in most cases won't translate to a recorded sound especially if it's just a stereo recording tapped into the main house output, not a tracked recording that can be remixed after the fact. To get a decent live stereo recording you need to have the ability to send a seperate mix, with independent processing usually monitored through good stereo phones.

Now those old jazz recordings are another story and speaks to the quality of the musicians and engineers...

 

[Uncletoad]

Now those old jazz recordings are another story and speaks to the quality of the musicians and engineers...

Yea they weren't using amps. Just playing the sound that came out of the instrument.

I can't tell you how much I wish I could play that way.

To much electricity around here for anyone to go there anymore.

 

[moles]

....I had an enlightening experience not too long ago. I sent the PA the direct out from the Focus, with the blended p/u and mic signal just like you said. Sounded okay during the sets I thought. But they were making a recording at the board. As we were packing up, they started playing it back. What I heard was too much p/u, not enough mic for my tastes....

....What surprised me was that the recorded sound didn't sound nearly as natural as the sound coming out of my amp speakers. At first I thought this must be due to the lack of the acoustic sound of the bass I was holding blending in, but the same was true with my fretless Mouse straight into the board. So near as I can figure, there's some kind of voodoo going on with the mic/pickup blend coming through real speakers in real time that makes it sound different. ...

My first bet would've been the presence of your actual acoustic bass sound as well. One other thing to think about also is the difference between hearing the signal through your amp, and hearing it through whatever they were playing the recording through after. I know at most of the clubs around here, the sound system is generally eq'd all to heck (boosted bass might bring out more of your pickup sound), the speakers might not be the most accurate (most pa drivers aren't) etc etc..
Seems like whatever the reason, your amp is a part of your sound, for better or for worse.

 

[peterpalmieri]

Yea they weren't using amps. Just playing the sound that came out of the instrument.

I can't tell you how much I wish I could play that way.

To much electricity around here for anyone to go there anymore.

That's one of the reasons I love going to the Village Vanguard it's always all acoustic and the audience knows how to listen appropriately. Last year I saw Eric Revis with Branford and Jeff "Tain" watts all acoustic it was killer.

I was at the blue note and Birdland, recently saw Stanley Clarke and Ron Carter, these are both rooms that could be done acoustically and they had big amps.

As for me I'd love to be all acoustic but I take what I can get at this point..