An Observation Regarding Rap

[Wrong Robot]

So, like, it's either this, or porn? Right? Who on TB has that sig? I know someone does.

I felt the need to bold the selection above.....well it's just funny. Coming from you.

AuG

What you think I'm saying I'm not a goober? I'm the gooberist of all you goobers. Shesh.

Brad has started to dig into the stuff that I would have prolly been digging into had I not gone off and had a life for the past however many hours.

When it comes to rap, I see this far more than any other genre(except perhaps electronic music) where there is such a vitriolic hate. People immediately close themselves to it, and seemingly go out of their way to not only make it known they hate it, but also declare it to not be music, or to be ********, or that the people that like it are stupid trend whores...etc.

I do not see this with any other form of music. It clearly isn't about just the music for lota you cats, if it were, this thread wouldn't be 11 pages long. :/

As for the level of 'talent' involved. That's a pretty ridiculous argument. Since when should talent be at all a deciding factor of whether or not you'll listen to something, or more, whether or not it qualifies as music?

But then, now that we have victor wooten, we don't really need duck dunn anymore.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I agree with the post above, about using what you can as a form of expression.

The problem I have with it is - is it deserved?

I know how to do many different things that express myself in many different ways - web-design, music, art, poetry, and other ways - but am I rich? Am I able to roll around in a Bentley and be seen on MTV? No, it's pathetic.

If what you did was extremely popular and very lucrative the money's there.

Many people can do many things... that doesn't mean they'll make money at it. So, do Rappers deserve all of the financial rewards some of them reap? Yes. No doubt in my mind that in this world, being popular has it's rewards. The funniest thing about mega popular Rap is who the key audience is... IOW where most of that money is coming from.

And also to answer another question - I do not only dislike Rap, there is tons of music out there which I don't like - but I truly believe that MOST rap requires less talent. Even pop singers like Britney Spears (haha) seem to have more talent than people like Snoop Dog or whoever else is out there.

Have you heard Snoop with a band? I have. If you like Britney's aerobics class better, cool. She's all about classic formula Pop. So apparently in your mind, pitch corrected then lip-synched Pop requires more talent than the spoken word?

Okay.

Last night I went to a hardcore show, and for the most part the bands all played a root chord / note / whatever over and over, and nothing seemed too fancy - however, you could still definitely tell that they put time and effort into their work - though it may not be as good as many of the greats, it's still more than a lot of rap artists.

Do you really think you have a clue what time or energy ANY of these artists put into their craft?

Again, why not put as little time or effort just like you think they do and get rich?

 

[Vox Populi]

Anyone who thinks all rap sucks needs to check out Blue Scholars, The Coup, Jurassic 5, and Peanut Butter Wolf.

Let's face it guys: underground/alternative rap is the only genre of music today that is really revolutionary.

 

[reasonbass]

meh, rap in it current state IMO stinks.

with the exception of a few emminem songs. Can't stand the guy, but I do not deny his pure genius and talent.

Rap, IMO, was at its peak in the early -late 90's ...

NWA, Public Enemy, Bone Thugs, TuPac, Dr. Dre, Snoop, ... even Master P had his highlights.....

after that.. its a joke.


EDIT: Man, I suck at spelling.

My thoughts excatly.

 

[Derio]

I'd hardly consider it a waste of time to throw together the same kind of stuff that's selling millions of records today. You could still play the music you like, just take a day or so, make something on par with Usher's "Yeah" and sit back and watch the money role in.

If it takes no talent, why can't EVERYONE do it?

Should be a piece of cake... who wouldn't want to instantly become financially secure using their superior talent to make an inferior product?

Too easy? Hell, I'd put out a remix of Ice, Ice Baby wearing Hammer pants... that's right, I'd sample a song based on a sample if I knew it'd bring me millions. I'd laugh all the way to the bank.

I never said EVERYONE can do it. I book and manage shows here in my small town, we get bands running through here on there way to Salt Lake City or Las Vegas.

I see SOOO MANY bands that are JUST as good if not better than much stuff that is mainstream - people, like rappers, just get their lucky break.

Granted, most of my music I book isn't rap - I still do my fair share of research - check out sites like myspace, there are a small handful of bands that are good enough to be mainstream - but their not. Also, you need to look past recording quality.

-----

I'm not GROUPING ALL rap, underground rap artists like above mentioned may be good and skilled..

Why don't I break down and spend a good chunck of my upcoming time to make rap music and be rich? I don't care to be rich - my heart isn't there.

I've only played bass for 7 months, but have had my heart in music much longer. If I were to have taken that 7 months of bass playing, and put into mixing and working on my 'flow', I could do it - I know I could. Now imagine you guys that have been playing bass for TWENTY FIVE YEARS! Do you REALLY think that you would require TWENTY FIVE years of mixing and working on the 'flow' to be good enough to be mainstream?

 

[Brad Johnson]

I never said EVERYONE can do it. I book and manage shows here in my small town, we get bands running through here on there way to Salt Lake City or Las Vegas.

I see SOOO MANY bands that are JUST as good if not better than much stuff that is mainstream - people, like rappers, just get their lucky break.

Granted, most of my music I book isn't rap - I still do my fair share of research - check out sites like myspace, there are a small handful of bands that are good enough to be mainstream - but their not. Also, you need to look past recording quality.

People are talking about the fact that talent is not needed. That would mean that just about anyone should be qualified to do it.

As far as lucky breaks go... let's be real. The entertainment field is loaded with them.

-----

I'm not GROUPING ALL rap, underground rap artists like above mentioned may be good and skilled..

Why don't I break down and spend a good chunck of my upcoming time to make rap music and be rich? I don't care to be rich - my heart isn't there.

It was a general question... why don't the people who think it's easy and requires no talent do it?

I've only played bass for 7 months, but have had my heart in music much longer. If I were to have taken that 7 months of bass playing, and put into mixing and working on my 'flow', I could do it - I know I could. Now imagine you guys that have been playing bass for TWENTY FIVE YEARS! Do you REALLY think that you would require TWENTY FIVE years of mixing and working on the 'flow' to be good enough to be mainstream?

No... you "think" you can do it. If you haven't done it you don't know.... and you have no idea at what level you could do it. That's one of the problems I have with a lot of the stuff people are talking about... as if they could spend a few months and do what Busta Rhymes does rhythmically. It's dismissive.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I never said EVERYONE can do it. I book and manage shows here in my small town, we get bands running through here on there way to Salt Lake City or Las Vegas.

I see SOOO MANY bands that are JUST as good if not better than much stuff that is mainstream - people, like rappers, just get their lucky break.

Granted, most of my music I book isn't rap - I still do my fair share of research - check out sites like myspace, there are a small handful of bands that are good enough to be mainstream - but their not. Also, you need to look past recording quality.

People are talking about the fact that talent is not needed. That would mean that just about anyone should be qualified to do it.

As far as lucky breaks go... let's be real. The entertainment field is loaded with them.

-----

I'm not GROUPING ALL rap, underground rap artists like above mentioned may be good and skilled..

Why don't I break down and spend a good chunck of my upcoming time to make rap music and be rich? I don't care to be rich - my heart isn't there.

It was a general question... why don't the people who think it's easy and requires no talent do it?

I've only played bass for 7 months, but have had my heart in music much longer. If I were to have taken that 7 months of bass playing, and put into mixing and working on my 'flow', I could do it - I know I could. Now imagine you guys that have been playing bass for TWENTY FIVE YEARS! Do you REALLY think that you would require TWENTY FIVE years of mixing and working on the 'flow' to be good enough to be mainstream?

No... you "think" you can do it. If you haven't done it you don't know.... and you have no idea at what level you could do it. That's one of the problems I have with a lot of the stuff people are talking about... as if they could spend a few months and do what Busta Rhymes does rhythmically. It's dismissive.

 

[Zharlon]

Talkbass 101. Anyone that disagrees with Wrong Robot is unfounded, controversial, offensive, or otherwise ignorant.

I first loved you for your amp choices(paticularly the NV610) but I really dig how you have just stated what I have been thinking for the great majority of this thread...

 

[cheezewiz]

I first loved you for your amp choices(paticularly the NV610) but I really dig how you have just stated what I have been thinking for the great majority of this thread...

Thanks! (I think).

 

[Wrong Robot]

you guys are just jealous you don't have mad rapping skillz shesh.


That said, You make an unfounded, ignorant or offensive statement and I'm going to call you on it, it'd hardly be an internet forum otherwise, much love cheeze.

 

[cheezewiz]

you guys are just jealous you don't have mad rapping skillz shesh.


That said, You make an unfounded, ignorant or offensive statement and I'm going to call you on it, it'd hardly be an internet forum otherwise, much love cheeze.

And hugs and kisses back to you WR.

 

[mike_v_s]

I'm white and I like some rap, but no country. My parents are white, too, but my father's an immigrant. He grew up very poor, but not on the "street". More like in the corn fields of southern Michigan...but it was a dangerous lifestyle (combines, locusts, you name it). Where do I fit into the complex matrix of understanding the rap culture? Do I get it....or do I just think I get it?

Mike

 

[Zharlon]

I have thought about subject many times in the past few years, primarily as now I am the father of 2 young children ,I guess.

I want to qualify my statements by pointing out that I had a LONG history of early rap enjoyment...I (yes it is true) even was an avid BREAK DANCER all through juinor high school(member of the "Westside city breakers" ...they called me "Shake -N- Break"...LoL!).....I remember waiting for Run DMC singles to come out on those medium sized records and couldn't stop myself from starting to "Jam on it!" with Nucleus......
When NWA hit the scene I was totally floored and still remember most of the lyrics ....[gotta fat girl..FAT GIRL...on my jock].....[Drop the double barrel , grab the harpoon](first REAL BASS kinda records I had heard)...I loved it all, and I come from a middle class white family....

That all being said....It might be the "mainstream" or "commercial" stuff but.....I believe that the rap that I am often unfortunately exposed to is the ONLY music I am aware of that CONSTANTLY degrades women (skeet skeet skeet?) encourages violence, and basically glorfies the worst aspects of our culture (standing infront of the most expensive thing possible, holding actual PILES of currency,..fake gold teef...ect.) Not to mention the message that goes with...

NOW!! I understand the incredible talent of many in the industry, and I realize if I just dig into the deeper depths there is PLENTY of valid stuff(Can't resist the sudctive beats and grooves) But I think the GENERE of rap stands alone as having a considerable percentage of the music being :crude , base, mean, and degenerate....

All styles have the greats and the crap too....but none of the stuff I listen too (many styles) sports the above mentioned qualities (least I don't think so)....

 

[travatron4000]

Though I not going to read all 11 pages it seems that, IMO, we're all basically saying MTV = Bad, Forward thinking, creative, artists(real creators of art not performers, recgonize the difference between artists and performers) = good

 

[Robear22]

I'm white and I like some rap, but no country. My parents are white, too, but my father's an immigrant. He grew up very poor, but not on the "street". More like in the corn fields of southern Michigan...but it was a dangerous lifestyle (combines, locusts, you name it). Where do I fit into the complex matrix of understanding the rap culture? Do I get it....or do I just think I get it?

Mike

You can get in where you fit in!!!!!!

Just because you are white does not mean that you cannot understand the hip hop culture. But if you will take a look at some of the comments and opinions in this thread you will see some posters who do not have a clue and are not interested in getting one either.

 

[georgestrings]

I just read through this whole thread and I hope I don't get in trouble for this but I have to ask this question.

Are all of you guys of caucasian persuasion?????


Some of the opinions and comments on this tread made me laugh and some made me very angry. Some of you don't understand and will never ever understand because you will never be exposed to certain circumstances and lifestyles.

Yeah, you guessed it - I'm white - and as for you getting angry, well, the truth hurts... Seeing how you wanted to bring up race, let me ask you something:


Known, or seen many actual gang members???


I have - I was a member of an outlaw type motorcycle club for quite a few years - and we had a clubhouse right down in "the hood" of Syracuse, NY... Now, in case you missed it, the feds hauled away a bunch of gangbangers here on Rico charges in the last couple of years - for everything from multiple homicides, arson, prostitution, extortion, drugs, illegal guns, LOTS of shootings, etc - because we had(and still do to an extent) a real violent crime problem on the south and west sides of our city... I have seen, and to some extent, dealt directly with a fair amount of this... Now, just who do you think was mainly involved in all this??? Ever read any crime stats??? How about been around many gang related shootings???


I'll stand behind my earlier assessment...



- georgestrings

 

[willgroove2]

Yeah, you guessed it - I'm white - and as for you getting angry, well, the truth hurts... Seeing how you wanted to bring up race, let me ask you something:


Known, or seen many actual gang members???


I have - I was a member of an outlaw type motorcycle club for quite a few years - and we had a clubhouse right down in "the hood" of Syracuse, NY... Now, in case you missed it, the feds hauled away a bunch of gangbangers here on Rico charges in the last couple of years - for everything from multiple homicides, arson, prostitution, extortion, drugs, illegal guns, LOTS of shootings, etc - because we had(and still do to an extent) a real violent crime problem on the south and west sides of our city... I have seen, and to some extent, dealt directly with a fair amount of this... Now, just who do you think was mainly involved in all this??? Ever read any crime stats??? How about been around many gang related shootings???


I'll stand behind my earlier assessment...



- georgestrings

well I'm black and from the "hood" and let me say that the socio-political slant of crime stats and the reality of where and how I grew up have always been a trip to me.the fact is if i compiled crime stats based on economic information i think you would see that ANYBODY who grow's up at a certain economic level and dealing with the resulting conditions can be disposed toward higher criminal activity.and the fact that you said you were in a "outlaw motercycle club" at one time let's me know that you have to understand that all criminals are not black.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

When it comes to rap, I see this far more than any other genre(except perhaps electronic music) where there is such a vitriolic hate. People immediately close themselves to it, and seemingly go out of their way to not only make it known they hate it, but also declare it to not be music, or to be ********, or that the people that like it are stupid trend whores...etc.

I do not see this with any other form of music. It clearly isn't about just the music for lota you cats, if it were, this thread wouldn't be 11 pages long. :/

As for the level of 'talent' involved. That's a pretty ridiculous argument. Since when should talent be at all a deciding factor of whether or not you'll listen to something, or more, whether or not it qualifies as music?

I think you have misunderstood my point about this being a musicians' forum.

So what I'm saying is that if people are studying music, learning to play an instrument, devoting their time to this - then by definition, they are interested in this or they woudn;t be devoting so much time to it.

Being a good player means it takes up a lot of your time and you need to be interested in the type of music, to devote yourself to it...

So - the point is that we're on a bass players' website and there aren't so many role models in rap, which focuses on the rapper and not much else..

If you want to be a bass guitar player your role models are going to be elsewhere - in rock, funk, Jazz etc.
Similarly if you're a DB player then you are going to be looking to orchestral music or role models in the Jazz 'greats'.

So when I say it doesn't surprise me - I'm saying that I would expect people who are devoting their time to learning to play Bass Guitar or Double Bass...would be looking eslewhere than rap for their role models, heroes etc.

And you only have to hang around the "Bassists" forum to see the truth of this - so there are lots of threads about rock/pop/punk/funk/jazz bass players - but I can't think of one, which mentioned a player who is famous for playing on rap recordings ...?

Can you point me to any....?

 

[georgestrings]

well I'm black and from the "hood" and let me say that the socio-political slant of crime stats and the reality of where and how I grew up have always been a trip to me.the fact is if i compiled crime stats based on economic information i think you would see that ANYBODY who grow's up at a certain economic level and dealing with the resulting conditions can be disposed toward higher criminal activity.and the fact that you said you were in a "outlaw motercycle club" at one time let's me know that you have to understand that all criminals are not black.

Ever heard Bill Cosby's rant on this subject??? It's hard to argue with what the man said, if you're truly honest about the way things REALLY are... It's easy to take a cop-out, and claim "economics" - but when people refuse the free education before them, then further refuse to work a job - just WHOSE fault is their "economic status"??? What about a little parental/personal responsibility - and how about some community leaders who actually try to help better the people around them, rather than point fingers, and make excuses???? And for the record, I have met, and know there are PLENTY of decent, hard working black people - and likewise, there are PLENTY of white low-lifes, too...

As for my own past, I flew colors for 10 years(now retired), and was an officer for 9.5 of them - yet I've managed to avoid ever having a felony conviction - think that's an accident???

I realize we've gotten a little off-topic, but all I'm saying is I've seen the criminal element that Rap typically glorifies, and in REAL life, it isn't pretty - color me, NOT A FAN...



- georgestrings

 

[Pacman]

This is way off topic. Thread closed.


I appreciate everyone's civility.