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An Observation Regarding Rap

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#181
Brad Johnson said:
Understood... but do you HATE it? Whenever this topic comes up, there's no shortage of people who seem to despise Rap. I'm just wondering if people HATE say modern Country or R&B or Death Metal as much as Rap and completely dismiss the genre as having no value?

Truthfully, vapid performances are what bug me. The Star Search style performance where a singer hits a loud, long note 3/4 of the way through the song to elicit applause.

Then again, maybe they're really feeling it.

The patriotic love it or leave it stuff that's sure to sell to a target audience (again, maybe they really mean that too). Urban yodelling that's labled R&B. No doubt they're feeling that.

I'm not... but I realize that that's not the sum total of any of those genres. Take the R&B stuff for instance. Mariah? Shoot me. OTOH performers like Raphael Saddiq and Calvin Richardson bring it, old school style... when people weren't basing songs on polling and committees.

On the Country tip, you have lots of artists following formulas there too but you also have the people who aren't merely trying to fit in the same old box (BTW that box is usually where success is found). Kenny Chesney? No thanks... I'd rather listen to Allison Krause. I have no idea if her "label" would be Country or Bluegrass or Americana or Look... no tricks... I do know she's extremely talented IMO. While I could condemn Country for every guy who puts on the biggest cowboy hat he can find, instead I listen to the stuff I like.

Generally speaking...

I like music and I know it's naive but it's kind of sad knowing some musicians aren't a bit more open-minded about it. There's a long way from "I didn't really care for it" to "It's not music, it sucks". Of course in the end they're all valid opinions.
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Brad..we agree almost 100 percent on this post. (Should we mark the calendar or something?) There are certainly greatly talented modern R&B and modern Country musicians. Allison Krause is great, as is Keith Urban, and a few others. Brad Paisley is certainly a hell of a guitarist. Your quote " Urban yodelling that's labled R&B." may be one of the funniest (and TRUEST) comments on the genre I've ever heard. Saddiq is awesome. I've never heard of Richardson, but I'll check him out.

I guess I can't really say that a HATE rap, modern country, and modern R&B. As you and others have mentioned in this thread, I'm sure there is quite a bit of it I haven't been exposed to. However, I can't see myself going out of my way to listen to any of it.
 
#182
Robear22 said:
I just read through this whole thread and I hope I don't get in trouble for this but I have to ask this question.

Are all of you guys of caucasian persuasion?????


Some of the opinions and comments on this tread made me laugh and some made me very angry. Some of you don't understand and will never ever understand because you will never be exposed to certain circumstances and lifestyles.
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I'm Italian/English. Does that count?
 
#183
I understand that race is not a qualifier for likes and dislikes of musical genres so don't flame me for my prior post.

As I was reading some of the posts and comments, I wondered to myself if any of the posters were of a certain race. It seemed that no one really understood the origins and subculture behind what we call hip-hop and rap. I know we were talking about a variety of different topics in this thread but there is one thing I can say about types of music that usually has a message or is trying to relay an experience, it usually helps having some way of identifying with the artist. Do not take me to the deep end or generalize what I am saying. Being a black male, I have listened to a lot of rap and hip-hop. I agree with a lot of you on the state of today's rap and I don't want my kids to listen to a lot of the garbage. But not all of it is bad and it is music. It is not easy to flow over a simple groove or sampled track. But who am I to question some of you who obviously are way more talented than a lot of these artists. Maybe it is just a different form of expression or maybe some people are out to make a quick buck.

This always happens though when people start up treads on Rap. I am not saying that everyone should love it but watch your generalizations. :hiding:
 
#184
Bruce Lindfield said:
I think this is no surprise in a musicians' forum.

So - people who have decided to learn about music, make it their trade, maybe spend many years studying and practicing their instrument, are going to be resentful to somebody who comes along and says - you don't need any of that stuff, just sample a track somebody else made and start talking over it.... :hmm:

Im not saying that's my view - just that I can understand it and it doesn't surprise me.
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If you add in the fact that it's obviously very narrow-minded I'd agree. Or to put it bluntly, it's kind of dumb. The fact is, very few rappers SAY any of that stuff. OTOH that's what the little voice in the haters' heads keeps saying.

If someone came to the open mic gig I do on Monday night and only stayed for the set (and was narrow-minded and kind of dumb) by luck of the draw they could hear me play behind someone who rapped over a loop.

OTOH if they came to the next set they might hear someone rap over Chick Corea's "Spain".

IMO it's extremely ignorant to not even consider, after only looking at set one that what transpired in set two wasn't even possible.


BTW are you inferring that some of the people who are anti-whatever here are accomplished musicians and that's why they feel that way? I highly doubt it. I'd be willing to bet that some of it is due to the same reason some people hate slap.... they can't do it and others can. If Rap really requires no talent, etc., then ANYONE should be able to put a hit out and make tons of money. The reason they don't is...



exactly.
 
#186
Brad Johnson said:
If you add in the fact that it's obviously very narrow-minded I'd agree. Or to put it bluntly, it's kind of dumb. The fact is, very few rappers SAY any of that stuff. OTOH that's what the little voice in the haters' heads keeps saying.

If someone came to the open mic gig I do on Monday night and only stayed for the set (and was narrow-minded and kind of dumb) by luck of the draw they could hear me play behind someone who rapped over a loop.

OTOH if they came to the next set they might hear someone rap over Chick Corea's "Spain".

IMO it's extremely ignorant to not even consider, after only looking at set one that what transpired in set two wasn't even possible.


BTW are you inferring that some of the people who are anti-whatever here are accomplished musicians and that's why they feel that way? I highly doubt it. I'd be willing to bet that some of it is due to the same reason some people hate slap.... they can't do it and others can. If Rap really requires no talent, etc., then ANYONE should be able to put a hit out and make tons of money. The reason they don't is...



exactly.
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+1,000. Exactly what I was thinking Brad.
 
#188
I agree with the post above, about using what you can as a form of expression.

The problem I have with it is - is it deserved?

I know how to do many different things that express myself in many different ways - web-design, music, art, poetry, and other ways - but am I rich? Am I able to roll around in a Bentley and be seen on MTV? No, it's pathetic.

And also to answer another question - I do not only dislike Rap, there is tons of music out there which I don't like - but I truly believe that MOST rap requires less talent. Even pop singers like Britney Spears (haha) seem to have more talent than people like Snoop Dog or whoever else is out there.

Last night I went to a hardcore show, and for the most part the bands all played a root chord / note / whatever over and over, and nothing seemed too fancy - however, you could still definitely tell that they put time and effort into their work - though it may not be as good as many of the greats, it's still more than a lot of rap artists.
 
#190
Bruce Lindfield said:
So - people who have decided to learn about music, make it their trade, maybe spend many years studying and practicing their instrument, are going to be resentful to somebody who comes along and says - you don't need any of that stuff, just sample a track somebody else made and start talking over it.... :hmm:
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I think you're right about that. I'm not saying the people who think that are right, but I do think that there's a belief among musicians that that's what's done. It's easy to disregard the work that goes into making a song if you don't hear what you've grown to associate with effort.
 
#191
Most pop music is simple and that is what most rap has become, simple. I have been told to keep my lines simple and to the point, not all those fancy fills and stuff for a couple of rap gigs I went into the studio for. Let us be honest here, most of todays music is plain and easy to play by most of our standards but hit the record button and we will find that we don't sound as good as we think. Our technique is bad and a simple thing like muting can expose how good we really are.

Enough with the political correctness, a lot of people do not understand the bling-bling mentality because some of us have had everything. When you grow up with nothing and finally get something you have a tendency to show off. Not everyone has parents like Cliff and Claire Huxtable. Some guys grow up on the street and the only way to get out for some of them is grabbin' the mic and flowing. This does not make it right but I am just trying to show where some of the attitude may come from.
 
#192
Man, it's amazing how this can keep going and the same stereotypes keep coming up page after page, no matter how much of it is intelligently, coherently, and patiently refuted. Makes you think people really don't want to know any more than what they've already decided.

It leads me to believe it's not really about the music genre, which is broad as many have already suggested (if you can get past MTV). I mean, come on, how can you really get worked up about your distaste for a music genre? I can't imagine really listening to some other genres, but I wouldn't get on a thread about it and vehemently declare it sucks-period.

Maybe it's the cultural influence some attribute to or associate with the music that people are reacting to. But really, any genre when taken to its marketing extreme and excess always comes out grotesque (many examples in rock). If anything, the over-the-top excess of some popular rap probably signals the attempts at squeezing out the last of what's left on that gravy train. I would imagine rap that most people aren't hearing now will probably quietly make it's way to the public soon enough.
 
#194
jkritchey said:
I'll have a go at your loaded question.... :p (I won't cop to hating, but admit to writing that I dislike)

There are a few genres that I tend to click away from when I encounter them:

1. Slow, organ filled church hymns (my mother is a church organist and a dang good one, but I bail ASAP when the tempo is dirge like)
2. Heavy Metal - just never dug it, despite being a roadie for my roomies speed metal band. Unpleasant to my ear.
3. The current bunch of 'pop divas' whose voices all sound the same, like it went through the 'magic box' from the Simpsons's Back Street Boys episode.
4. Smoooooooth Jazz tends to get turned off.
5. Pop country. Love a lot of old country, bluegrass, americana, Wille Nelson (whatever that is), the Bakersfield sound, Irish, etc. but light weight pop country doesn't last long on my radio dial.
6. Styx, ToTo, Kansas, REO Speedwagon, Foreigner... what is this stuff? What do we call this? I tend to turn away from it.

Are these genre's, or am I rambling...?

Dang, I'm out of wine, and need to be done....
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Understood... but I'm not talking about merely disliking something... more than likely there's music that rubs each person the wrong way. It seems that when it comes to Rap, it goes way beyond avoidance or merely disliking it. It'd be like me not liking WWF or whatever the acronym is now and then contending that they aren't human. I don't like that kind of wrestling but I understand for the most part why some people do.

It might surprise some who know me but I seriously consider most of Smooth Jazz to be heavily ether-based and avoid it like the plague... especially when driving. By the same token I know it is still music, it's just music I don't care for. I have heard some nice performances smothered inside of the Smooth arrangements and I can appreciate that in spite of the genre. I guess I'd rather spend time passionately liking something than passionately disliking something.

Hating Rap's popularity is kind of like hating Fender's. Both products tend to be very popular and very predictable. Both are hard to avoid, you see them everywhere. That doesn't mean they can't have merit but some people treat them that way based on their cultural saturation. Then again, can Rap be blamed for it's popularity? I doubt the kids in Bed-Stuy who rapped and broke-danced back in the day had a clue that one day even Poppin' Fresh would bust a rhyme.
 
#195
Derio said:
Totally agreed.
I was lying down in my grandma’s bed the other day and I could hear a beating that repeated itself over and over and over and over:

1-2--3-4
1-2----4
1-2--3-4
1-2----4
1-2--3-4
1-2----4
1-2--3-4
1-2----4
1-2--3-4
1-2----4
1-2--3-4
1-2----4

Seriously, the entire song... I was laying there just relaxing for like 10 minutes trying to figure out *** this is, then I walked out into the living room and there was some lame rap playing on the computer.

When thought about it, most rap artists can be compared to many acoustic solo artists who know 5 guitar chords and make their own song - however I even think the guitar solo guy is more talented. To sing and to play at the same time, and coming from a writer’s point of view (mainly poetry / songs), acoustic guys just have deeper, more abstract and rhetorical lyrics.



It's so incredibly easy to download or purchase any of the many music-making programs to lay down a beat. After knowing nothing about this program, I was able to lay down something very similiar (not nearly as good, I agree - but this was my FIRST one) to anything you hear from a popular rap artist. Now, I have a friend who can easily sit down and write comparable music to any rap artist without a sweat.

And about getting the 'flow'... I enjoy singing for my melodic metal band who plays only originals - I'm sure I can figure out how to come up with some easy, shallow, words with hardly any depth or emotion to them, and lay them over a track that repeats itself 30 times for 3 minutes.

I agree, if you were to expect me to pop out a rap song in a day - I couldn't do it, and frankly I wouldn't want to waste my time with that. But, if I was determined (as much as I am by doing my current style music / and bass playing), I could have songs down and recorded within weeks after starting from nothing.
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I'd hardly consider it a waste of time to throw together the same kind of stuff that's selling millions of records today. You could still play the music you like, just take a day or so, make something on par with Usher's "Yeah" and sit back and watch the money role in.

If it takes no talent, why can't EVERYONE do it?

Should be a piece of cake... who wouldn't want to instantly become financially secure using their superior talent to make an inferior product?

Too easy? Hell, I'd put out a remix of Ice, Ice Baby wearing Hammer pants... that's right, I'd sample a song based on a sample if I knew it'd bring me millions. I'd laugh all the way to the bank.
 
#197
Tbirdbassist said:
I'm pretty sure this has been said (or atleast I hope) you've got THE most typical one sided view of rap. Open your eyes, etc...
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Gotta set the standard you know? :p Just consider me FARRRRRRRRR left on this topic. :D

Like I said, I was musically blind back when I listened to rap. I guess you could say I DID open my eyes.

AuG
 
#198
Wrong Robot said:
Typically because you get people that have no real interest in the topic coming into the thread and voicing their unfounded, controversial, offensive or otherwise ignorant opinion on the matter and then when refuted or called out on it, they either never post again, or someone else picks up the slack trying to argue for them. Then, a bunch of goobers keep bantering about it, forgetting why we're on the internet in the first place... free titties. Then the thread ends.
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So, like, it's either this, or porn? Right? Who on TB has that sig? I know someone does.

I felt the need to bold the selection above.....well it's just funny. Coming from you.

AuG
 
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