An Observation Regarding Rap

[purfektstranger]

Why are some people so offended to learn that other people don't like rap music? How many people here dislike heavy metal?? I love heavy metal but bet alot of TB ers who don't care for it. Doesn't make them any less of a musician though imho.

 

[Wrong Robot]

Why are some people so offended to learn that other people don't like rap music? How many people here dislike heavy metal?? I love heavy metal but bet alot of TB ers who don't care for it. Doesn't make them any less of a musician though imho.

Because it's not enough for people to just not like rap music. I don't have any problems with people who simply don't like it. But, that's not what's been happening in this thread now is it? We've had people saying that rap isn't music, that it has no musical merit, and that anyone who does it or appreciates it, doesn't know about music. Now, that's quite a bit different than people saying "hey, it doesn't typically float my boat, but whatever, I still appreciate that it exists" or "I don't listen to enough to have an opinion" Instead, we've got dozens of people that have maybe heard 10 songs on the radio and decided that the whole genre and everything about it is worthless. I don't think I've ever heard an equal vitriol against any other form of music, except maybe electronic musics.

Likewise, not liking a specific music doesn't make you less of a musician anyway. I never said that. I said that closing your ears to something based on your own personal generalizations and bias against it and refusing to see anything to appreciate in it, makes you less of a musician. I stand by that. Because truly, I do not see how anyone who calls themselves a musician could ever willingly shut themselves out to any music...ever. They can not listen to it, or not enjoy it, but to go out of their way to actually shut it out and decry it... that's just wonky. Maybe that's naive, shrug, just my opinion.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Why are some people so offended to learn that other people don't like rap music? How many people here dislike heavy metal?? I love heavy metal but bet alot of TB ers who don't care for it. Doesn't make them any less of a musician though imho.

Because if you really read the contents of this thread you'll probably come away with the realization that that is clearly NOT what happened in this thread.

Heavy metal is not music... it's noise. It's all about shredding guitars and background noise bass. Examples to the contrary will be considered non-existent. People who listen to it aren't very bright. They should instead listen to what I like.

That's what this thread's been about.

 

[::::BASSIST::::]

Call me closed minded, but music without melodic content is just angry poetry, barked out to a cadence.

Not saying I don't see the artistry in the lyrics (sometimes), and that as an audio art form it can't move me to an emotion (ever), but it sure seems like it usually sucks out loud.

Most self-described rappers I've ever known have been utter and total tools. Not good sharp tools either, but more like rusty pliers that don't open all the way.

I'll say this for rap though.... it is where all the rock star personalities have gone, and that's a big part of why it's popular - larger than life stars with money, cars and women. Rock needs to get some of that swagger back.

you totally nailed it.

i would add that when an "artist" has to bogart other people's melodies because they cant write their own, its pretty lame.

i am pretty open minded about music and like just about everything, but rap just isnt my cup of tea to say the least.

 

[Mon Rominee]

We've had people saying that rap isn't music, that it has no musical merit, and that anyone who does it or appreciates it, doesn't know about music. ...we've got dozens of people that have maybe heard 10 songs on the radio and decided that the whole genre and everything about it is worthless.

Just for clarification's sake, that is not what I was getting at (regardless of whether those comments were directed to me). Tho I've recinded some of my comments, I need to further clarify that mine were an extension (thru a bad generalization) of my opinion expressed in my first post here.

there are those that are truly into it (and you CAN tell), then there are the "me-toos"(who are often, imo, a much larger number [oops, another generalization]) who want to "belong" and fit in with a certain peer group or whatever (spare me the "so what?). They're usually the ones who reply in the manner I speak. They know the beat, probably know the words to the chorus, and that's as far as it gets. Not a crime, but still. Was I wrong to use the word "pathetic"? yes. Was I uttering undue disdain? Sure. Sorry about that.

But I certainly wasn't dismissing the genre, nor was I claiming there was no merit to it. And I own quite a bit more than 10 songs, thank you.

Mon

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Because it's not enough for people to just not like rap music. I don't have any problems with people who simply don't like it. But, that's not what's been happening in this thread now is it? We've had people saying that rap isn't music, that it has no musical merit, and that anyone who does it or appreciates it, doesn't know about music. Now, that's quite a bit different than people saying "hey, it doesn't typically float my boat, but whatever, I still appreciate that it exists" or "I don't listen to enough to have an opinion" Instead, we've got dozens of people that have maybe heard 10 songs on the radio and decided that the whole genre and everything about it is worthless.

You nailed it- people don't take the time to learn and appreciate what it is. After you've taken your time and listened to all kinds of rap, you may still not like it, but if you still think there's no musicality to it, then you're ignorant to what your hearing.

Bruce Lindfield's description of rap had as much merit and thought to it as when Homer Simpson's described jazz by saying, "Jazz, pfft. They just make it up as they go along. I could do that: dee dee-dee dee dee dee dee, dee dee dee..."

 

[ras1983]

The Brad Johnson and Wrong Robot fan club starts right here.

I applaude both of you for supporting the validity of rap and hip-hop as a genre.

I'm going to repeat myself to everyone, rap is about the groove - real instruments or not - and the beat. the rappers rap over the groove ane the beat.

Any other ideas about rap are completely missing the point.

And for thos that prefer real instruments, Dr. Dre has been using live musicians since 1997; just google Mike Elizondo; he's done the majority of Dre's bass playing.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Just for clarification's sake, that is not what I was getting at (regardless of whether those comments were directed to me). Tho I've recinded some of my comments, I need to further clarify that mine were an extension (thru a bad generalization) of my opinion expressed in my first post here.

there are those that are truly into it (and you CAN tell), then there are the "me-toos"(who are often, imo, a much larger number [oops, another generalization]) who want to "belong" and fit in with a certain peer group or whatever (spare me the "so what?). They're usually the ones who reply in the manner I speak. They know the beat, probably know the words to the chorus, and that's as far as it gets. Not a crime, but still. Was I wrong to use the word "pathetic"? yes. Was I uttering undue disdain? Sure. Sorry about that.

But I certainly wasn't dismissing the genre, nor was I claiming there was no merit to it. And I own quite a bit more than 10 songs, thank you.

Mon

You can find that in almost any genre of music. Lots of people who aren't truly serious about the music they play.

Except Polka.

 

[DeepCalls2Deep]

why is this thread at 8 pages?

 

[Brad Johnson]

The Brad Johnson and Wrong Robot fan club starts right here.

I applaude both of you for supporting the validity of rap and hip-hop as a genre.

I'm going to repeat myself to everyone, rap is about the groove - real instruments or not - and the beat. the rappers rap over the groove ane the beat.

Any other ideas about rap are completely missing the point.

And for thos that prefer real instruments, Dr. Dre has been using live musicians since 1997; just google Mike Elizondo; he's done the majority of Dre's bass playing.

A clarification: I don't so much support Rap as question the broadbrushing of most things. There's Rap I don't like... a lot of the same things the people who say they don't like Rap, period, have mentioned. What I don't do is ASSUME that, not being exposed to different artists as some clearly haven't been, ALL Rap is bad, non-melodic, angry poetry made by people who only sample and can't play musical instruments or hire people who can. That's sad... in addition to not being very bright.

One thing I'm curious about... for the folks who hate Rap, for all the above reasons, are there any other genres that you also hate, IN TOTAL? If so, why?

I guess I'm lucky in that I came up during a time when labels weren't as prevalent. Liking music as much as I do, I listened to EVERYTHING I could get my ears on. I'd watch Ed Sullivan weekly and can't remember seeing ANY artists that I thought sucked or had no merit. NONE. I'd watch Jimmy Dean and Johnny Cash. Cash was one cool ____ with his guitar jacked up under his arm. I'd sit and watch Roy Clark on Hee Haw... I learned a lot about the importances of position shifts just by watching his effortless play. Some of my favorite Beverly Hillbillies episodes were when Flatts & Scruggs showed up... they could play their butts off. I listened to Classical, watched Broadway musicals, Lawrence Welk (I picked up so many standards from that show alone it's not funny), 60's music based movies. Not once can I recall thinking this is beneath me or corny or had no merit, etc.

I realized that if I bowed to peer pressure I'd have to choose what and what not to listen to... and that was obviously a BS atttude even back then. If I assumed I knew what to expect on things I hadn't really been exposed to and didn't check them out, it would be my loss.

I think the fact that I can find merit in most genres has played a big role in my musical developement. It's also helped gig-wise because I'm one of those lucky few who truly has no idea how many songs I know... it's easily in the thousands.

Maybe it is simpler to limit your exposure. Doing that voluntarily amazes me.

 

[Brad Johnson]

why is this thread at 8 pages?

Because it's a discussion and people have things to say?

How many pages should it be?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Bruce Lindfield's description of rap had as much merit and thought to it as when Homer Simpson's described jazz by saying, "Jazz, pfft. They just make it up as they go along. I could do that: dee dee-dee dee dee dee dee, dee dee dee..."

The Simpsons goes to show that some Americans appreciate irony!!

 

[bucephylus]

I'd like to echo that Brad usually has well thought out reasons for what he says, even if you disagree on the face of it.

Furthermore, there are some bass-centric aspects of Rap that ought to provide useful discussion. I'll list a few below. However, we should all realize that the entertainment world is going to take Rap wherever it may in an economic Darwinian sense, regardless of whatever we may happen to think about it.

I've been interested in some of the possibilities for Rap since it hit. Way back when, I was working in an instrumental thing a la Letterman Band, and we did things like putting a Rap front end onto It Don't Mean a Thing. There is no question in my mind that groove is a basis of Rap. In fact, it always seemed to me that the early beats were sampled from Aretha's Baby I Love You, which grooves hard. However, more recent cover band exposure I've had indicates that mainstream Rap has been moving away from player grooves to computer generated jive. I hope that does not prevail.

Some discussion topics I'm interested in are:

What is the current role for bass players in Rap and how can that be expanded/improved?

To what extent can Rap be integrated into other stuff, the way Quincy Jones or Herbie Hancock would incorporate?

How might Rap incorporate into Club Band playlists, or will it more likely be a guy with a lap-top, some samples, a turntable, and a microphone competing for Club time - like the DJ situation?

 

[DeepCalls2Deep]

Because it's a discussion and people have things to say?

How many pages should it be?

Sorry, I should have been more clear....

I was wondering how a post that started out as what appears to be a rant / joke about rap music, has tunrned into a thread where people are disussing things other than rap.... or refuting/ validating rap as a genere.

I am no n00b when it comes to forums, and thread hijacking... but this thread hasn't really been hijacked.. it seems to have morphed into something else.

I was just pondering the way ebb and flow of conversation can lead you to many places..... hence :

why is this thread at 8 pages?

 

[Wrong Robot]

Sorry, I should have been more clear....

I was wondering how a post that started out as what appears to be a rant / joke about rap music, has tunrned into a thread where people are disussing things other than rap.... or refuting/ validating rap as a genere.

I am no n00b when it comes to forums, and thread hijacking... but this thread hasn't really been hijacked.. it seems to have morphed into something else.

I was just pondering the way ebb and flow of conversation can lead you to many places..... hence :

why is this thread at 8 pages?

Typically because you get people that have no real interest in the topic coming into the thread and voicing their unfounded, controversial, offensive or otherwise ignorant opinion on the matter and then when refuted or called out on it, they either never post again, or someone else picks up the slack trying to argue for them. Then, a bunch of goobers keep bantering about it, forgetting why we're on the internet in the first place... free titties. Then the thread ends.

 

[bucephylus]

Typically because you get people that have no real interest in the topic coming into the thread and voicing their unfounded, controversial, offensive or otherwise ignorant opinion on the matter and then when refuted or called out on it, they either never post again, or someone else picks up the slack trying to argue for them. Then, a bunch of goobers keep bantering about it, forgetting why we're on the internet in the first place... free titties. Then the thread ends.

While I respect Brad's disparate views, it is difficult to extract constructive content from some of your posts. Perhaps, I am ignorant.

 

[Wrong Robot]

While I respect Brad's disparate views, it is difficult to extract constructive content from some of your posts. Perhaps, I am ignorant.

Care to elucidate?

 

[cheezewiz]

While I respect Brad's disparate views, it is difficult to extract constructive content from some of your posts. Perhaps, I am ignorant.

Talkbass 101. Anyone that disagrees with Wrong Robot is unfounded, controversial, offensive, or otherwise ignorant.

 

[bucephylus]

Care to elucidate?

Whether Matt intended this thread to become such an expansive examination of the various aspects of Rap in a bass player's life is not apparent. However, there are some interesting discussion points, and it is an important topic.

Differing opinions about aspects of the art form are useful. Commentary on the intelligence of the posters is less interesting. Your experience and positions on the subject matter are valuable. We all need to be good stewards of the thread, so it doesn't get any longer than necessary.

BTW, the titties on the internet are just pictures. You get free pictures of titties, if that matters.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sorry, I should have been more clear....

I was wondering how a post that started out as what appears to be a rant / joke about rap music, has tunrned into a thread where people are disussing things other than rap.... or refuting/ validating rap as a genere.

I am no n00b when it comes to forums, and thread hijacking... but this thread hasn't really been hijacked.. it seems to have morphed into something else.

I was just pondering the way ebb and flow of conversation can lead you to many places..... hence :

why is this thread at 8 pages?

Say Rap or politics or religion and it's off to the races on TB.

For everyone...

I'd seriously like to know if anyone who hates Raps hates any other genres or is Rap the only music that isn't for them?