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An Observation Regarding Rap

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Wrong Robot said:
Ya, didn't think so. It's risky business calling yourself a musician, then you gotta start appreciating all music. gasp.

Like I said, I used to listen to rap. Until I found out exactly what it stands for. Music as a whole generally tends to promote some sort of message, whether it be politically, emotionally, culturally, etc.etc. Sorry I can't appreciate something that promotes the love of money, shootin up da nay-ba-hood and slangin rocks and the like. Just not my cup of tea. Or maybe that's the culture promotion going on.

It's nice that you could get off on your definition of a musician though, really it says a lot about how you judge others based on musical preferences and likes/dislikes. I'm not a musician because I don't like rap, or pop, or hip hop. Thanks for clearing it up, it all makes sense now. :rolleyes:

Good thread props for whoever started it. :)

AuG
 
W. Robot, I apologise in that my comments could be taken as obtuse, again, not really my intent. As it is, my wording was poor. Of course all music can be enjoyed on any level, and I appreciate good beat and rythm as much as the next person, and I appreciate all music styles, as is evidence to my listenning habits.

Sorry to have hit a nerve, again, not my intent.
 
Wrong Robot said:
Yes, it is of course possible! But AuG's post was going out of his way to devalue any shred of appreciation one might find in rap music, which, to me, is pointless and mildly offensive.

I love american folk music, Appalachians stuff, mountain music, bluegrass. It's good stuff. That's kinda like classic country isn't it?

Well, I suppose it is related, but still different. I like bluegrass. There are some amazing musicians in that genre. I don't listen to much Hank Sr. or George Jones though.
 
Matt Till said:
As I sit here at my computer, kept awake by the sounds of some random crappy rap, I get to wondering... is this one of the reasons people don't like rap?
My impression was that Matt's main point was that the mainstream commercial stuff has caused a perception issue for the form. There haven't been too many posts arguing that point.

From there, the thread has taken on a "taking sides" thing, which is difficult to find value in.

Am I wrong that RAP has a somewhat purposeful polarizing aspect to it? Not the music, but the culture. Perhaps, it is an essential aspect that integration into the greater scheme is not part of the deal. If so, aren't we all just falling into that trap?

OK, if I'm off target, I'll hit delete.
 
AuG said:
I used to listen to rap, back when 2pac and Biggie were still breathing. I eventually realized that this whole "genre" does nothing but promote guns, drugs, the love of money (probably the worst part of it all) and viewing women as 'bitches'. Sorry, but take a look at any rap video and that's what you have. The mere fact of 50 cent starring in a video game of himself and the streets of wherever is pure nonsense, and directly points to his past gang involvement. It's indirectly saying that gangs are cool, and that since he was in a gang and is now famous that you could be in one too. You have respect for that? Respect for someone who has the stardom and sheer number of fans who are so influenced by his image that they would do anything to try to copy his success, albeit a tainted and bullet riddled success? After all, it's cool to get shot 9 or 10 times right? We have to have a movie about your life so we can see how truly criminilistic (is that a word?) you really are huh? Oh wait, lets throw some family scenes in there so it's not so bad. Biggie sold guns and dope, I don't see any movies about him. If I had any respect at all for a rapper, it would be 2pac and his writing. A true poet if I ever did hear one.

As far as rap being musically challenged, I would have to agree. The same progressing melody or riff over and over and over and over again. If there is a bass player, it's a 3 or 4 note pattern, with almost zero fills or changes throughout the entire song. Me? I like music to have some sort of progression from verse to chorus to bridge....any type of direction makes listening more enjoyable. Time changes are a plus too. I listen to music for the MUSIC, not for what some guy wants to rant about in a barely understandable ebonics laced tongue, all the while having the same repeating riff going on for 4 or 5 minutes at a time. :rollno: And don't get me wrong, I can still get down with some old WuTang or BoneThugs from back in the day. Brings back memories of course. :)

Someone mentioned the youths of today accepting this as part of a peer pressure deal. I can honestly say that because my friends listened to it that I did too, so I can attest to that as well as one other observation. I ask people why they like rap. Not trying to influence them against rap, but just a simple question with a simple answer. For girls, it's usually "He's sooooo HAWT" and for guys it's "I just like the beat and/or groove." If a girl gives me that answer, I don't even waste any more time with her. For guys, I'll start suggesting some other music with a groovin drum beat or bass line, and when they have a listen, it's always the same. "It's too complicated." This is what they'd say to something like Dreamtheater or Death or Opeth. Shoot I've even tried some Thelonius Monk and I get the same response. Given, these bands/artists are far from the rap genre and have their respective extraordinary musicians, but I think that the emergence of rap as the most popular music is inevitable in a society of dumbed-down youths, who don't have an appreciation for music that might sound different from the normal 4-4 time. It's all about simplicity IMO. Can't get too complicated or else it's sensory overload. Same reason why kids don't like jazz, it's just so different from the normal everyday crap on radio that they can't identify with the music.

Like I've said before, Rap should have been a fad like disco. But noooooooo the white kids had to start listening. I'd also like to add that I'm not taking any shots or stabs at anyone including the person I quoted above. This post is merely my observation of the topic at hand.

I'll go and hide now. :hiding:
AuG

It would be hard to squeeze more generalizations in one post.

"I eventually realized that this whole "genre" does nothing but promote guns, drugs, the love of money (probably the worst part of it all) and viewing women as 'bitches'. Sorry, but take a look at any rap video and that's what you have".

Sorry but that's ridiculous. It's showing the narrow scope of what you're exposing yourself to, not the sum total of the genre. Then again every Roots, Mos Def, Will Smith, etc. video I've seen has been all about bitches and bangin'.

Watching crap, then complaining about the crap you watch while ignoring anything that doesn't fit the description seems to be the rule of the day for many here.


BTW I know Jazzheads who can't get into Monk. And White kids listened to disco. And last night I played behind a rapper whose track (with actual live musicians on the recording) consisted of a six bar 6/8 groove with one 4/4 bar turnaround. Some people just might need to get out more before making grand proclamations/condemnations. IMO of course.

I didn't realize a girl who liked a beat or groove was a bad thing. Who knew?


This amounts to watching primetime Fox tv and deciding "House" sucks because some other shows do.
 
AuG said:
Like I said, I used to listen to rap. Until I found out exactly what it stands for. Music as a whole generally tends to promote some sort of message, whether it be politically, emotionally, culturally, etc.etc. Sorry I can't appreciate something that promotes the love of money, shootin up da nay-ba-hood and slangin rocks and the like. Just not my cup of tea. Or maybe that's the culture promotion going on.

It's nice that you could get off on your definition of a musician though, really it says a lot about how you judge others based on musical preferences and likes/dislikes. I'm not a musician because I don't like rap, or pop, or hip hop. Thanks for clearing it up, it all makes sense now. :rolleyes:

Good thread props for whoever started it. :)

AuG

No, it's not about you not liking a specific genre of music, it's about you closing your ears to any music. I don't believe a musician would do this. Besides, how am I judging you by saying that? I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, heck, who am I to say appreciating all music is a good thing. Maybe discretion and segregation of styles is more productive, it's certainly easier, and you probably get to listen to more of what you like. good on you.

Also, not all rap is about money, bitches and ho'z. You saying that you cannot appreciate rap because that's all it's about is as absurd as me saying I can't appreciate rock because I don't like suicidal messages.(bearing in mind that the current pop rock is emo)
 
Wrong Robot said:
Yes, it is of course possible! But AuG's post was going out of his way to devalue any shred of appreciation one might find in rap music, which, to me, is pointless and mildly offensive.

I love american folk music, Appalachians stuff, mountain music, bluegrass. It's good stuff. That's kinda like classic country isn't it?


Well, I didn't mean to offend you. That was my overall impression of rap; doesn't mean you have to agree with me. ;) I think it was Victa who said, "The best way to learn about music is to listen to stuff you don't like." A lesson I live by, and one that helped me to discover The Monk and pretty much Jazz in general.

On a side note: Bluegrass is one of my favorite genres. Yonder Mtn. String Band played the Mishuwauka (sp?) a while back when I was in CO. , kick arse show for sure. :)

AuG
 
AuG said:
Well, I didn't mean to offend you. That was my overall impression of rap; doesn't mean you have to agree with me. ;) I think it was Victa who said, "The best way to learn about music is to listen to stuff you don't like." A lesson I live by,


A lesson that was clearly lost on you!! :hmm:

The point of when he says that is that you never close your ears to anything, ever. You never let anything other than the music dictate whether or not you'll listen to something, and you never let preconceived notions get in between appreciating the value in all forms of music.

Solely having an 'overall impression' of any form of music shows that you missed that point.
 
AuG said:
Like I said, I used to listen to rap. Until I found out exactly what it stands for. Music as a whole generally tends to promote some sort of message, whether it be politically, emotionally, culturally, etc.etc. Sorry I can't appreciate something that promotes the love of money, shootin up da nay-ba-hood and slangin rocks and the like. Just not my cup of tea. Or maybe that's the culture promotion going on.

And you really don't get that there's actually other Rap that doesn't do this?

It's nice that you could get off on your definition of a musician though, really it says a lot about how you judge others based on musical preferences and likes/dislikes. I'm not a musician because I don't like rap, or pop, or hip hop. Thanks for clearing it up, it all makes sense now. :rolleyes:

Good thread props for whoever started it. :)

AuG

What did you think it stood for before you found out what it stood for? Did you just like the beat or groove? Could you not understand the words?
 
AuG said:
On a side note: Bluegrass is one of my favorite genres. Yonder Mtn. String Band played the Mishuwauka (sp?) a while back when I was in CO. , kick arse show for sure. :)

AuG


Have you heard Stiff Dead Cat? I just saw them live in san fran, they opened for les claypool. They play what they call 'porch music', and take great pride in being, essentially, rubes with instruments. I can say, without recourse, it was the hardest rocking acoustic music I've ever heard. Heavily bluegrass and mountain influenced, with the quirkiness of primus/claypool, and a whole lot of wicked soundplay. You might dig 'em.
 
AuG said:
Well, I didn't mean to offend you. That was my overall impression of rap; doesn't mean you have to agree with me. ;) I think it was Victa who said, "The best way to learn about music is to listen to stuff you don't like." A lesson I live by, and one that helped me to discover The Monk and pretty much Jazz in general.

On a side note: Bluegrass is one of my favorite genres. Yonder Mtn. String Band played the Mishuwauka (sp?) a while back when I was in CO. , kick arse show for sure. :)

AuG


Just as you probably understand that, while Monk is Jazz, Jazz is not necessarily Monk, do you not get that the same is true for Rap?
 
Brad Johnson said:
Could you not understand the words?

Sorry, am I needed here?


<reads the last twenty posts> :eek:


Is it safe to say that some of you (us) have heard a spoonful of rap and havn't found much need to explore the genre?

And that the Music is lugging around this giant Cultural reputation on it's back that obfuscates the art form itself? :hiding:
 
AuG said:
I guess I should specify commercial rap. :) Sorry for the generalization.


Generalizations seem to be your speciality. I mean, go ahead and generalize if you want, but don't be surprised when you come off sounding like an ignorant boob.

Now as to your point. It's not just commercial rap. Commercial music in general(hehehe, they're so easy) has always been about the product/sellability first and the music second. There was a time when, by sheer convergence of luck and good fortune, the two were in sync, but that is not always the case. Verily, even back in the day, who is to say for how much amazing music went unheard due to not being marketable?

Commercial music is something that I'm, regretfully, a little bit close minded with, not because I don't see it as potentially having flavor, but because I know that the vast majority of it is simply a product, nothing more. That is a fact. That said, I don't let that prevent me from listening to a pop radio station and hearing what's new, because, you never know what you might learn.
 
Brad Johnson said:
......



What did you think it stood for before you found out what it stood for? Did you just like the beat or groove? Could you not understand the words?

Precisely. Beat and groove. I also stated that it was a peer pressure thing, just trying to fit in. I listened to mostly east coast stuff, which is mostly straight beat and not a lot of harmony. (BoneThugs being the exception, if you consider Ohio "east side") I liked some west coast stuff, 2pac, Snoop, Eazy E, Dr. Dre, that kinda thing.

As soon as I started exploring music I realized that it really wasn't that great. Just my opinion. I guess you could say that back then I was musically blind. I ONLY listened to rap. I really had a dislike for the classic rock and metal. Now it's totally reversed. :) I can still listen to some rap, mostly old WuTang (36 chambers) and Biggie and stuff. Still know most of the words too for some reason. :eyebrow:

AuG
 
I like some rap, I cannot stand other rap, this is true for almost all music with me. Not to say that I am amazingly open minded or that I set a good example, but it seems to me that all different types of music genres exist for a reason, there is something beautiful about each one. There are a lot of artists that have lost their way or were never really in it for the music, or that just plain out suck, but if you are open mnded about music you should be able to see the beauty of rap, or punk, or rock, or classical or whatever, because it is in there somewhere. That came out sounding like a bunch of hooey, oh well.
 
Wrong Robot said:
Generalizations seem to be your speciality. They are. I mean, go ahead and generalize if you want, but don't be surprised when you come off sounding like an ignorant boob. I don't surprise myself often, and I don't think I'm any part of the female anatomy.

Now as to your point. It's not just commercial rap. Commercial music in general(hehehe, they're so easy) has always been about the product/sellability first and the music second. There was a time when, by sheer convergence of luck and good fortune, the two were in sync, but that is not always the case. Verily, even back in the day, who is to say for how much amazing music went unheard due to not being marketable?

Commercial music is something that I'm, regretfully, a little bit close minded with, (yeah that's not the only thing) not because I don't see it as potentially having flavor, but because I know that the vast majority of it is simply a product, nothing more. That is a fact. That said, I don't let that prevent me from listening to a pop radio station and hearing what's new, because, you never know what you might learn.

I'll agree with your last sentence. Ooo, ooo, does that make me a musician now? :D

AuG
 
Wrong Robot said:
A lesson that was clearly lost on you!! :hmm:

The point of when he says that is that you never close your ears to anything, ever. You never let anything other than the music dictate whether or not you'll listen to something, and you never let preconceived notions get in between appreciating the value in all forms of music.

Solely having an 'overall impression' of any form of music shows that you missed that point.

:rolleyes:
 
AuG said:

Seriously. You say you try to live by that lesson, yet you would discount an entire musical movement solely based on some dubious 'overall impression' you got from it(that, incidentally had nothing to do with the music itself). That is completely missing the point of what vic was talking about.
 
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